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TODAY'S TIMES

BORROWED OPINIONS
Editorial

Overprivileged Executive

It is hardly news that top officials in the current Justice Department flout the law and make false statements to Congress, but the latest instance may be the most egregious. When Attorney General Alberto Gonzales wanted the USA Patriot Act renewed in the spring of 2005, he told the Senate, “There has not been one verified case of civil liberties abuse.” But The Washington Post reported yesterday that just six days earlier, the F.B.I. had sent Mr. Gonzales a report saying that it had obtained personal information it should not have.

This is hardly the first time Mr. Gonzales has played so free and loose with the facts in his public statements and Congressional testimony. In the United States attorneys scandal — the controversy over the political purge of nine top prosecutors — Mr. Gonzales and his aides have twisted and mutilated the truth beyond recognition.

Congress and the American public need to know all that has gone on at the Justice Department. But instead of aiding that search for the truth, President Bush is blocking it, invoking executive privilege this week to prevent Harriet Miers, the former White House counsel, and Sara Taylor, a former top aide to Karl Rove, from telling Congress what they know about the purge of federal prosecutors.

Mr. Bush’s claim is baseless. Executive privilege, which is not mentioned in the Constitution, is a judge-made right of limited scope, intended to create a sphere of privacy around the president so that he can have honest discussions with his advisers. The White House has insisted throughout the scandal that Mr. Bush — and even Mr. Gonzales — was not in the loop about the firings. If that is the case, the privilege should not apply.

Even if Mr. Bush was directly involved, Ms. Miers and Ms. Taylor would have no right to withhold their testimony. The Supreme Court made clear in the Watergate tapes case, its major pronouncement on the subject, that the privilege does not apply if a president’s privacy interests are outweighed by the need to investigate possible criminal activity. Congress has already identified many acts relating to the scandal that may have been illegal, including possible obstruction of justice and lying to Congress.

The White House argues that its insistence on the privilege is larger than this one case, that it is protecting the presidency from inappropriate demands from Congress. But the reverse is true. This White House has repeatedly made clear that it does not respect Congress’s constitutional role. If Congress backs down, it would not only be compromising an important investigation of Justice Department malfeasance. It would be doing serious damage to the balance of powers.

Ms. Taylor is scheduled to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee today, and Ms. Miers before the House committee tomorrow. They are expected to claim executive privilege. If they do, Congress should use the powers at its disposal, including holding them in contempt, to compel their testimony.

Vaughn Tolle said:
 
This one is headed for the courts.

On the AG AG issue, note the careful parsing; "...not one verified case...". The FBI report cited (I recall hearing last night there had been as many as six reports) did cite gaining information it shouldn't have, but at that point, was it verified, or was it the opinion of the FBI based upon its own analysis of the situation? That sounds like I'm defending AG AG, but I'm not. The point I'm trying to make is that while there were reports of potential abuse, had any of these been, in fact, found to be true? Splitting hairs, I know, but when a party, no matter how despicable, is accused of lying under oath, hair splitting (or if you prefer, careful parsing of the answer) becomes a part of the discussion.

The above likely results from my legal training. Reminds me of a story I once was told:

Two men were floating in a hot air balloon, and were lost. Passing over a house, they saw a man in the yard below. One of the balloonists leaned out of the gondola and said, "Excuse me, sir, could you tell me where we are?" The gentleman below, looked up, and said "About 60 feet in the air", and returned to his chores. The questioner turned to his companion and said "I bet he's a lawyer". The second balloonist then asked the man on the ground whether he was a lawyer, and received an affirmative answer. The balloon continued on its journey, and the second balloonist turned to the first and said "How did you know?" The first said, "Because of his answer; technically correct and not worth a damn!"

Thus, AG AG's answer may have been technically correct, thereby not being a lie under oath; but it wasn't worth a damn, as it did not disclose the concerns of the FBI made known to the higher-ups in DOJ about possible violations of the rights of citizens.
 
posted 864 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
Good one. I'll bet you've heard more than your share of lawyer jokes.

I suspect you're right on the "technically correct," and once again the 29%ers will be able to accuse witch hunt, nothing there, move along...
 
posted 864 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Heigh ho, heigh ho, it's off to court we go...

http://tinyurl.com/yut2za

Linda, ignore email recently sent your way. On the two subjects in your post, you are correct in both.
 
posted 864 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
<http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id...

Link to an abstract of an essay on Privacy, touching upon many things (the essay, that is) including an analysis of the NSA programs so earnestly defended by the current administration. From the abstract, one may download the full essay, which is in a PDF file of some 25 pages. For those who wish, I commend it to your full attention, as it discusses many things, including an analysis of existing Fourth Amendment jurisprudence and its coming up short in dealing with the broader concept of privacy, and a debunking of the "I've got nothing to hide" argument often made by those who see no issues surrounding the NSA program, etc. Not for the faint at heart.
 
posted 864 days ago
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Being in engineering, I heard the same joke but the guy who was correct was an engineer.

When production people ask me engineering questions,
I often reply:
Do you want the short answer?
If you do, then I need a yes or no question!
 
posted 864 days ago
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VT, I got the paper downloaded.
I hope to get to read it tonight.
Thanks!
 
posted 864 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
@ Tracy: enjoy it (if it doesn't prove enervating).

Back to the main topic of the thread. Link below to a "column" by an attorney for CBS News on Executive Privilege, easy read.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2007/07/11/couricandc...
 
posted 864 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
http://tinyurl.com/23ppnc
Above link to SCOTUS opinion in U.S. v. Nixon for those who would like to read the Court's explication on Executive Privilege for themselves (you can skip the first several pages of the opinion dealing with jurisdiction and justiciability without missing anything).

It is more narrow than I remembered. While there have been a few subsequent cases, one involving Pres. Clinton, another involving VP Cheney, this opinion is the one which sets out the "rules". Rereading (just reskimming) the opinion highlights for me the overly-broad claim made by the current administration.
 
posted 864 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Now I see GWB "ordered" Ms Meirs to not appear at all. Upon what authority, I ask. She is no longer an employee of the government, and Mr. Bush has no lawful expectation that his order be followed.

Perhaps this is in direct reaction to Ms Taylor's appearance yesterday. Although she invoked the EP claim at various appropriate times, I suggest that the answers she did give to certain questions served to weaken the argument for EP. And, IIRC, she was, at best, an unwilling participant in the entire ballet having earlier (pre-notification of the assertion of Executive Privilege) stated she had no issue with answering the committee's questions. Even Senator Specter, who initially at least gave some support to the claim, suggested that there were problems with the claim after she answered some of the questions.
 
posted 863 days ago
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What a sorry state our govt is in.
Like Linda says, what happened to democracy?
Sheesh.
 
posted 863 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
Vaughn, have you forgotten bush's status as king? WE THE PEOPLE should remember our place, most especially those whom have been incompetent enough to be part of "the inner circle." We are subjects and the king is PROTECTING US because we are unable to see the dangers. Why aren't you shaking in your boots, hiding in a closet, an ever-vigilant sheepdog?

Sorry. All that was totally stewpid and unnecessary. But no more so than what comes out of OUR White House. If anything came from the White House which should be taken seriously I would require verification from outside sources. I have no confidence in and no respect for bushco.

Honest questions I would appreciate answers for (as people can really be as dumb as I admit I am): If bush decided to forgo presidential elections in 2008, could he? If he stated "war and all," would there be an avenue to stop him? What "proof," if any, would be required? I've oversimplified the questions purposefully.
 
posted 863 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Linda, I frankly don't know. I've heard debates on the topic between folks much more qualified from a scholarly perspective than I who, as far as I can determine, don't really know either. I would suggest that if the presidential election of 1864 could be held, then the bar is set rather high.
 
posted 863 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
Since when has bushco worried about precedent or even constitutional law?

Boy, I DON'T trust this bunch! Guess I've become one of the conspiracy nut cases.
 
posted 863 days ago
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Wichi said:
 
nut cases on Tracy's blog? say it ain't so!

Hi everyone, just dropping in to see what's up
 
posted 863 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
certifiable! but let's keep it as our little secret...
 
posted 863 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Well, Linda, reading through my dogeared copy of the Constitution, I find the following information relative ONLY to Presidential elections.

Article 2, section 1, says the Congress "may" set the date of the election. It also says the term of office for the President, and by extension through implication of the Vice President is to be four years. Article I, section 9, which limits the legislative power, does not discuss the postponement of elections (FYI, this is the section that discusses the suspension of the Writ of Habeas Corpus, so if the founders thought the Congress might do something to suspend, etc., an election, I believe it would be here).

As you have pointed out, the current administration, under its theory of the "Unitary Executive" might well try to claim some extraordinary power on the part of the President to take the actions you describe. Notwithstanding the current makeup of SCOTUS, I don't think he/they want to go there.
 
posted 863 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
It seems exactly where most wouldn't want to go is where bushco runs to! Common sense, the rule of law, accountability to the electorate... don't seem to be part of their thinking processes. Maybe their theme should be, "where no administration has gone before."

BINGO! Another term could ensure another SCOTUS appointment. Seems no matter how outrageous the actions of bushco we all just sit around shaking heads, wondering how in the world, deeply concerned BUT NO ONE TAKES ANY ACTION. the beat just goes on.

Lest you start worrying I truly have gone off some edge of reason I did understand what you said even tho I veered off madly. certifiable I tell ya!
 
posted 863 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Linda, there is bluntly at this time no action that can be taken. If sufficient GOP Senators (yes, Senators, for this is where the blocking action can and is taken) switch to get at least 60 votes in favor of something, then cloture of the filibuster can occur. However, even should that occur, additional defections must occur to arrive at the needed 67 Senate votes to override a veto. On the veto override issue, there would need to be some shifting of position in the House. On a strictly party line vote, the requisite number of votes aren't there.

But what about impeachment, you might ask. Votes, dear Linda, votes, together with the time it takes to prepare Articles of Impeachment, shepherd the same through the House to get to the Senate for trial. Are there sufficient votes in the Senate to convict, necessary for removal from office? I don't think so at the present time, even if there should be sufficient time for the House to do its Constitutional duty.

Thus, what meaningful action may be taken? All sorts of symbolic actions might occur, but the filibuster will stop the same. Presuming enough votes for cloture, vetoes will flow. If there aren't enough votes for override in both chambers, a futile gesture, one which, IMHO, give the GOP ammunition for the 2008 campaigns.

An unsatisfactory response, I'm sure. Time heals all wounds, and wounds all heels. It seems to me that time is on the side of those who are presently chafing under the yoke of perceived impotence due to the need for votes before meaningful changes may be made. Regrettably, this also aids the current administration in running out the clock so the blame may be shifted in futuro to its successor when the inevitable chickens come home to roost. Sad, but true as I see it.
 
posted 863 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
I had suspected what you wrote so very well, without understanding. Now that you've put it down I understand. I'm sad about that. I don't think this is the way it was supposed to work. Maybe the Fathers of our great Country could never imagine what we have in the office of president. Maybe they could never imagine how our elected officials could be bought and paid for. Maybe they could never imagine how much time and money needs to be spent to be reelected. Maybe they could never imagine people who would NEVER make it in any other job being our elected officials.

Or maybe this is exactly what they fought the American Revolution to overcome.
 
posted 863 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Linda, if one reads the Federalist Papers, one realizes that in part, the Founding Fathers understood the possibility of some of what we see now, and tried to prevent it in some small part. Thus, frankly, the idea that one had to be male, "free white and 21" and a property owner to vote. Yes, I know this seems counter to what we believe, but there was a feeling of keeping the hoi polloi from participating. One needs only look at the election of Senators by state legislatures in the original Constitution to see the fear of a "democratic" election process. See also the Electoral College process.

One thing they could not foresee is the time and money needed for reelection. Hearkening back to those times, it was envisioned that there would be a "citizen legislature", composed of those who could afford to serve, and only on a part time basis. Again, some of their ideas, some of which made it into the written document, some of which did not, which reflected their ideas that the voters, and thus by extension the elected officials would need to be a success in some way, in business or otherwise; thus the property ownership requirement in many of the early states' voting registration laws. This also implies education, for only the wealthy (or relatively well-off) had much, if any, formal education.

If you recall, the Revolution and the process leading up thereto was the product of a distinct minority of the then Colonists. The process of the Revolution arose from the feeling of deprivation of rights as a British Citizen by a monarch best described within the language of the Declaration of Independence. Again, many of these revolutionaries came from the "upper class" economically, and it was these folks who understood they had rights as a British Citizen which were being denied by the monarchy. Had George III listened a bit, and modified some of his policies, we might still be a member of the British Empire!

I submit that the provisions regarding impeachment were deliberately made difficult to avoid the removal from office of an individual who had become unpopular with the masses. Yes, it was a GOBN in all respects, intentionally so. Similarly, the 2/3 majority needed to override a veto, to avoid the "tyranny of the majority" envisioned by many and best articulated by de Tocqville (sp) in the early 1800s. Filibusters arose from the operation of the Senate; for the majority of the history of the Republic, there was no cloture provision of but 60 votes to cut off debate. BTW, I suspect this was something the Founders did not anticipate at all, else there would likely have been something within the text of the great document dealing with it.

Notwithstanding the "the U.S. was founded and intended to be a Christian nation" arguments, the Founders were acquainted with the philosophical writings of Hume, Locke, and others which discussed the "social contract" of government. There is little to nothing of a religious nature underpinning these writings and the theory, which became explicated in a modified form within the original provisions of the Constitution, as well as in the ideas which flow within the Declaration of Independence.

I see I'm venturing into the philosophical now, so will shut this post down. If I cannot get back to any blogging the rest of the day, everyone have a good weekend.
 
posted 862 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
I'm learning so much! I have NO formal education. I'm finding this very interesting; guess its off to the library soon so I can understand more. History isn't a subject I've ever studied. My son-in-law Steve (married to Tonya) is a history teacher. I should have many talks with him and quit bothering you, Vaughn. Although you do a fantastic job of teaching!

I'm reading a book right now that really has my interest, titled "UNDER THE BANNER OF HEAVEN," by Jon Krakauer. Chad recommended it when he was home recently. When I finish I will give a report and an offer to share.
 
posted 862 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Aw shucks, Linda. Just doing the best I can.
 
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