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BORROWED OPINIONS

WIRETAPPING SCANDAL? WHAT WIRETAPPING SCANDAL? – by Peter Hart 

On May 15, former Deputy Attorney General James Comey testified to the Senate Judiciary Committee about the Bush administration’s extraordinary efforts in March 2004 to gain legal approval for the National Security Agency’s domestic surveillance program. The story was startling, at the very least—involving top officials confronting each other in the hospital room of a seriously ill Attorney General John Ashcroft—but it attracted little media curiosity. “The New York Times” (1/1/06) and “Newsweek” (1/9/06) first reported the incident in January 2006, to little notice. Comey’s testimony added the critical detail that, acting as attorney general due to Ashcroft’s illness, he refused to sign on to an extension of the wiretapping program, at least in part because the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel argued that it was illegal. Several Justice Department officials, including Comey and Ashcroft, were apparently ready to resign if the White House overruled them. 

On March 10, 2004, then–White House counsel Alberto Gonzales and chief of staff Andrew Card decided to go to Ashcroft’s bedside to seek approval for the wiretapping program, despite Ashcroft’s having temporarily stepped down. When Comey learned of Gonzales and Card’s plan, he and FBI Director Robert Mueller met them at the hospital, where Ashcroft dramatically rebuffed the attempt to get him to overrule his replacement. Weeks later, unspecified changes were made to the wiretapping plan, and the Justice Department dropped its opposition. Many legal experts have long considered the administration’s warrantless wiretapping program to be illegal and indeed unconstitutional (as U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor ruled on August 17, 2006). But the fact that top officials at Bush’s Justice Department shared such views is a very important development in the story.  It raises several key questions:  

• What aspects of the program did Justice Department officials think were illegal?

• How substantial were the changes that won the department’s approval?

• If the department thinks that the program up until March 2004 violated the law, what recourse do those who were spied upon illegally have? 

Yet some major media outlets seemed to feel that there was no story here at all. As Media Matters noted (5/16/07), two of the three network newscasts (“CBS Evening News” and “ABC World News”) did not cover Comey’s testimony. On May 20, “ABC World News” finally did mention the story. The story got a new news hook at last on May 17, when George W. Bush refused to answer a question about the incident (“I’m not going to talk about it. . . . I will tell you, however, that the program was necessary”). Mr. Bush’s stonewalling, however, elicited very little media follow-up. “The New York Times’” account of the press conference (5/18/07) did not even mention it; the paper buried Bush’s refusal to answer simple questions in another story the same day about Democrats’ opinions of Alberto Gonzales.  

The “Washington Post” editorial page (5/18/07), however, was unusually harsh in its criticism of Bush over what it called the “Wednesday Night Ambush,” arguing that it  “matters enormously . . . whether the president was willing to have his White House aides try to strong-arm the gravely ill attorney general into overruling the Justice Department’s legal views. It matters enormously whether the president, once that mission failed, was willing nonetheless to proceed with a program whose legality had been called into question by the Justice Department.”         

The Sunday morning chat shows, usually obsessed with inside-the-Beltway dramas, mostly steered clear of the controversy. ABC’s “This Week” (5/20/07) was the notable exception, where conservative George Will likened the incident to something out of “a thriller set in a banana republic.” The “Washington Post’s” strong editorial concluded this way:  “The president would like to make this unpleasant controversy disappear behind the national security curtain. That cannot be allowed to happen.” Thanks to misplaced media priorities, no national security curtain is needed to make this story disappear. In fact, word of the scandal never even appeared in some of the nation’s largest outlets.  

Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Or, are we all just the victims of "scandal fatigue"?

It is Nixonian in the way the current administration is invoking the "National Security" mantra to cover everything, regardless of any real relationship of the issue to "national security".
 
posted 844 days ago
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gster said:
 
This incident was bad enough, but I'm more concerned about what we "don't know". The backroom secret agreements, etc., if they exist, are far more worrysome! Based upon their istory, how can one put anything beyond these people?
 
posted 844 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Yep, Gster, the bulleted questions need answers. I guess I should say open and honest, supportable by data, answers, that apparently not being a part of some in the Administration's understanding of "answers". BTW, I caught the following in passing at cnn.com, a blurb that the White House (the White House? ) is sending a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee regarding AG AG's testimony. Gee, he went to law school and all that; surely he can write a letter! /sarcasm
 
posted 844 days ago
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Rox said:
 
Agree 100%, gster. We're lucky to know about this one, only because someone didn't allow it to drop out of sight. This is what has worried me since these "little things" have started happening and been mentioned (only slightly). The WH pooh-poohs something, and everyone seems to think it's all right. Well, I don't. The people in the WH work for us, the people. They are accountable to us, and we must stand firm until we have questions answered to our satisfaction. I truly put the MSM at the top of the fault list. The American People are second on the list. Congress is third, but at least the Dems have more numbers now and have acted on some things, even though all we hear about that is "witch hunt".

Is it a witch hunt? Hardly. When we start looking into every financial transaction Bush has been involved in, then I might think about using that term. But the Bushes are much smarter about hiding things than the Clintons ever dreamed of being.

 
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Rox said:
 
VT, yes on the scandal fatigue, but someone HAS to stay on this.
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Yes, Rox, someone does have to stay on this issue. I'm glad that former deputy AG Corney felt it incumbent to raise it in his testimony, which, in and of itself, may reveal the true reason he's a former deputy AG.
 
posted 844 days ago
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gster said:
 
When I think back to Nixon & Watergate, and what Elliot Richardson did and stood for and contrast it with AGG, I feel ill! Bush sure has a real HR talent!

I have never been so ashamed and embarassed as I am of this Administration.
 
posted 843 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
I have to grudgingly hand it to the Administration for causing the DNI write the letter to Senator Specter, I believe, that was released last night. Such fine parsing; enough, I believe, to remove perjury. But what a defense! AG AG didn't testify untruthfully, because the program about which the questions were asked wasn't named that when there was a controversy! Absolutely brilliant, I say.
 
posted 843 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
I feel the same shame and embarrassment g. I'm not as wise or educated as most but I always thought we had checks and balances in place to prevent any administration committing even one of the crimes I feel bushco guilty of but never facing any punishment for. They do what they want and it's OK. There seems to be NO oversight, no accountability. Nothing before has shaken my faith in my country like bushco has. I feel defeated and hopeless. And, I've never seen such a wide array of sins in the name of god. Feels like all things good have been trampled.
 
posted 843 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
So brilliance has replaced everything right and good. Our laws can be so easily circumvented? I knew justice was for sale and now see it can also go to the most creative way of getting around the letter of the law.
 
posted 843 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Linda, as I have posted before, perjury is a very technical crime. The letter, in fact, notwithstanding my (intended to be sarcastic) comments, provides a defense for AG AG which does comport with the "letter of the law", in this case, the law of perjury. In this regard, the members of the Committee are not without fault. It is my understanding that they had the ammo, but asked the questions and allowed the answers to go unchallenged in such a way that AG AG could be saying many things, all of which may well be of dubious credibility, but which do not rise to the level of perjury.

As I have also posted before, careful parsing of what is said (written) becomes essential, as is the need to carefully parse the questions before the same are asked. Thus, if the questions had been a bit more general, for example, instead of referring to the TPS program, any program; and then, careful followup of the answers directed to the TPS program alone, would have been more helpful.

Speaking of parsing, etc. Anyone going to follow Rummy's testimony today on the Tillman investigation? I fully expect that this will be a prime example of carefully crafted answers, delivered in such a way as to cause most to hear what they want, not what is actually being said.

And Linda, before I retire from this field of combat, a lawyer can appreciate, without approving of, a good trial or other defensive tactic, especially when it works.
 
posted 843 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
Must fill them all with pride to be such talented masters of deception.

I do understand appreciating without approving, Vaughn.

Back before I became a bum one of my duties was the writing of the Employee Policy Manual. It was easier to put the company's vacation, sick leave, etc. policies into writing than those policies directing acceptable behavior. Usually abuse caused rules to be written, policies created. Then it was an exercise in writing what couldn't be "gotten around." There was always someone who preferred to find the loophole or the other way of reading it... It isn't easy to write something that is uniformly understood. And it seemed those who were most innocent understood more clearly the original intent than those looking for some way to circumvent in order to have a defense.
 
posted 843 days ago
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Rox said:
 
Linda,
I feel as you do. In the past, I was angry. Now I'm only sad. With each lie we're told, with each squirming out of reach on a technicality, the sadness deepens. I feel that our generation thought that after Vietnam and the Nixon mess, we and our representatives had learned valuable lessons. Apparently, many didn't. Or maybe they were too well learned, enabling them to pull of even worse things.

I'd have to go back and read Clinton's testimony, but it seems we're using two sets of rules. IIRC, and it could be I don't, Clinton was asked: "Did you have sexual intercourse with Ms. Lewinsky?" To which ol' Bill answered: "No, I did not."

Technically, this wasn't a lie, as sexual intercourse as defined is not a BJ. I even heard him state a year or so ago, that if they had asked the question correctly, they would have received the answer they wanted to hear.
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Well, need to read closer. In final para of the 9:48 AM post, the words "not prohibited by law or rule" after "tactic".
 
posted 843 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
You, my friends, can probably tell how poor a witness I would make. I tell before asked, usually blurting out much more than needed to be said. Oh, and I'm disinclined to defer blindly to authority.
 
posted 843 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Linda, you are not alone. I've been called as a witness twice, and it's no fun. Part of the problem, I suspect, for many is the undeniable unpleasant feeling of being on the stand, in front of everyone, trying to listen to the question being asked so the answer is accurate, combined with the feeling of "I just want to tell what I know so I can get out of here". Been there, done that. Don't like it, didn't like it. Any wonder why I'm no litigator? :-)
 
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lindainks55 said:
 
No wondering here! I think you are as capable as any litigator but prefer to direct your talents to areas less "tricky."

I'm surprised none of my friends asked if "disinclined to defer blindly to authority," could also be called stubborn and pig-headed! This is what I would call a great effort on my part to "parse" my description of me.

Too much effort involved so y'all will just need to put up with me.
 
posted 843 days ago
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Danny said:
 
Rox,

Regarding Clinton, while I may not have supported him(due to some views that I hold personally and think to be very important), I didn't agree with the hearings/impeachment proceedings of him. Overall, I wasn't absolutely disappointed with Clinton either.

Now, with that, I believe the question was asked as "sexual relations" to which he answered he did not have sexual relations with Monica. On a technicality, I suppose if the question was worded that way(as I stated), then perjury was committed, but who cares what he does in his sex life. If no harm was brought about to another person(abusively) then whats the problem?





 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Danny, with respect to the deposition testimony, it is my (hazy) recollection that there had been a judicial definition of the term, whatever it really was, before the question was asked/answered. It is my further recollection that the answer was accurate within the definition provided by the judge.

During my adult life, there have been two Presidents that I felt should have been subject to impeachment proceedings: Nixon and Reagan. We all know what happened with Nixon; and, as I recall, there was a deal struck with Reagan (concerning the Iran-Contra matter) by the Democratic Congressional leadership, who didn't want to subject the public with another impeachment proceeding within 10 years of the Nixon proceeding. BTW, if interested, you should look at the Articles of Impeachment voted out by the House; the same are very instructive. Sorry, no link, as I saw them back in the "on paper" days, but I'm sure they're out there.

As to the current sitting President and Vice President: I believe there is a case for impeachment, as I believe there is a case to be made for "Constitutional misdemeanors" to use a term favored by scholars. But, reality says there's neither the time nor the votes to make it worthwhile, and even if begun, it does smack of payback, given the ultimate futility of the effort.
 
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lindainks55 said:
 
And, bushco knew the futility long ago. Just like they know they will be long gone before the investigations run out of roadblocks. Once gone it doesn't seem likely the investigations need continue in lieu of addressing current challenges so historians will be the ones who may shed light in the dark corners of this administration. bushco will go forward with their pockets fuller than they were before, exert influence behind the scenes and never face the music during their lifetimes.

Politicians being politicians, future administrations will learn lessons from this. Thus, a need for a revolution of WE THE PEOPLE.
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Wondering, Linda, how successful the historians will be. I do not recall the specifics of one of the first Executive Orders Mr. Bush issued in his presidency, but the same related to an extension of the time documents held in Presidential libraries could continue to be "classified" (not a correct term, but you get the idea) before becoming publicly available. At the time, the period of confidentiality as to the Reagan records on Iran-Contra was about to expire (extending, of course, through to Bush 41s records as VP), which effectively put the same off-limits for an additional generation of historians. As it is, the EO operates not only upon the Reagan documents, but also Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43, and subsequent administrations, unless and until the same is annulled by a subsequent order, which will be prospective only (affecting only the then-sitting President into the future). Now, I don't think Mr. Bush had anything more in mind at the time than protecting Mr. Reagan and his father, but, hey, who knows, it may be helpful in the future....
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Linda, the "revolution" should be at the ballot box. Given the self-perpetuating interests that most politicians have, will it do any good? I don't see any Mr. Smiths wanting to go to Washington out there these days (if there were ever any). Some way, some how, the pendulum will swing back, assuming there's anything left for a pendulum swing to affect, that is.

I'm a bit dark here; WE THE PEOPLE have, in large part, forfeited our responsibility by not paying attention as we should. How many times have we read/heard of the disdain of the body politic for the institution of the Congress, e.g., and yet that disdain does not, given election results, extend to OUR Senator/Member of the House of Representatives? Actions speak louder than words.

Big mistake was, IMHO, made in the early days of the Republic when political parties began. Given the English system with which our founders were familiar, I guess it was inevitable. Unlike the English system, intentionally or unintentionally, the system was "fixed" to more or less assure there would never be more than two parties from which to choose. The existence of multiple parties in Parliamentary systems has, of course, demonstrated on multiple occasions how unworkable such a system can be.

One of the great political revolutions in our history is when the Republican party arose at a national level in 1856, and replaced the Whigs. The same type of revolution is needed now, but given the fiscal and practical realities, I don't see any reasaon to suspect it will happen in my lifetime.
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Actually, Karl Rove understands what happened some 150 years ago (more or less). The Democratic Party was well on its way to becoming a permanent majority at the National level, given the continued inability of the Whigs to "modernize". The Republican party arose to replace the Whigs as more and more people found much to disagree with the Democrats, but the Whigs were, in a sense, moribund. Slavery was a big issue underlying this, and it's going to take an issue analogous to slavery to have another political revolution in this country. Rove understands that, and doesn't see such an issue lurking anywhere, thus the push for the permanent Republican majority. Iraq war is not such an issue, but is serious enough to derail, at least temporarily, the grand plan.
 
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Danny said:
 
Vaughn,

This coming from one who did vote for Bush(yeah wanted him to finish what he started in Iraq, which isn't likely to happen), I could see the potential easily enough for impeachment based on some things I've read.

With that, if the belief is by the powers that be(congressional leaders) there should be an impeachment, then I don't think time, votes, or possible motives of payback should matter. The reason I feel this way, the law is written the way it is and should be enforced the way it is written.

I suppose that this indicates I take a rather simplistic view of things. But why make things more complicated than they need be, if simple will work effectively well?
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Danny, were it so. I guess I'm one that sees very little in black and white, but ever so many shades of gray.

On impeachment, the drafters of the Constitution deliberately made it a difficult process, so it would not be abused in petty political disagreements. Rightfully so, I must add here. Due to this difficulty, the reality does set in when one considers the need for the appropriate Congressional action, the time such action takes from other business of the government, and the likelihood of success, issues of time become overwhelming. Now, I do not discount the potential of sufficient GOP votes swinging the other way, but even if they would do so, I frankly don't know that there is, in reality, sufficient time to see the process through. Thus, the genius of the drafters of the Constitution. In more coarse terms, if the SOB deserves impeachment, go for it; but if he really does deserve it, the next election should take care of it if there's not enough time to adequately do the job. Remember, the Nixon case arose in 1973, at the beginning of the second term, and by 1974, there was enough there to gain the needed support of an adequate number of both parties. Had it all come together in 1975, I don't know whether the outcome would have been the same.
 
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Rox said:
 
Danny, as I said, I'd have to have the transcript to read, but as a whole the Clinton impeachment trial was a farce. I'll be the first to cry foul when someone trips the bounds of matrimony (JFK never would've had a chance ;)), and I sure didn't agree with all he did concerning the running of the country either, but at least he understood that to run the country, it took both parties. The current administration only recognizes the other party as bugs to be squashed.

As for Rove, VT, I look forward to the day when we can say "Rest in Peace, Karl". He's a blight on this country, and even Bush Sr. kicked him out. Junior had other ideas. These people aren't dumb. They know how to lie and do it well. They also know how to get around every detail anyone could dream of, and the majority of the country has swallowed it, hook, line, and sinker.

It would be a delight to impeach this dastardly CiC and the whole lot of them, but time IS running out. I also don't trust elections anymore. Too many have been tampered with, which doesn't mean I won't vote. I will, but always there will be a little voice in the back of my mind that reminds me of what transpired with the last two presidential elections. Frankly, I'd love to see them all brought up on treason, once they're all out of office. Of course that won't happen, but one can dream, can't one?

And with all that said, I'll leave you all to discuss, while I read and absorb.
 
posted 843 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Another demonstration of reality, this time on the other side of the political spectrum. I believe I can safely say that if Mr. Bush had his "druthers", he would have nominated Gen. Pace to succeed himself as CJCOS. Given the signals sent by the Senate (both parties), he found himself in a position where the good General was going to be subjected to very harsh treatment during the confirmation process, with the very real possibility of being one of the, if not the, first nominees to CJCOS not to be confirmed by the Senate. Thus, he nominates Admiral Mueller (is this right? CRS is setting in) as CJCOS, and, from his testimony yesterday, the good Admiral isn't quite the "yes man" that Gen. Pace appears to be. I suspect the Admiral wasn't on the original list when it was realized the current term of Gen. Pace was expiring, and a new CJCOS was needed.
 
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Danny said:
 
Vaughn,

I understand what you are saying. I certainly do realize that impeachment isn't an easy(or short) process. It is nice having someone who went much further into the law classes than I to correct my simplistic view on things. I view my Criminology degree as, how to word this well, a glimpse of the laws and application to enforcing them and punishments to get people to not want to break them.

I guess my Computer Science degree really has me see things almost close to black and white. Seriously, things are of the nature: they work or they do not work, they are true or they are not true. Thus I apply that same level of logic to everything else. Damn, I need to get out more.

Rox,

I agree, I think that is why Clinton didn't really bother me as much(except on really only one issue). Further, I agree his impeachment hearing was a complete waste of time. Yeah, I don't like the fact that he was "getting a little on the side" but that is his personal life and is dealt with between himself and Hillary.
 
posted 843 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
Something seems to have happened to Rumsfeld's memory. He just can't recall. He doesn't know when he learned Tillman's death might have been from friendly fire. HOWEVER, he is positive he never covered anything up!

I don't remember.

I don't know.

I don't recall.

 
posted 843 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Danny, that is what intrigues me, from time to time, about Computer Science. The simplicity of Boolean logic is sometimes a mirage sitting out there, beckoning me to come...

I digress. I would suggest that your mindset is appropriate to your Criminology degree, as I understand the field. However, should you be successful in your desired career path, I would suggest further that sometimes, it may be a hindrance. Remember, Danny, when an agent is investigating a case, there are many times the "gut" says the alleged perp is guilty, but the evidence just isn't there. The agent's duty is then to continue the investigation using lawful means to see if the evidence is there, and if not, shake his/her head and walk away to the next case, without regret. Sometimes, as one of my wise old Law professors said, "You do the best you can", and if the result thereof isn't quite what was hoped, well, you did your best.

Sorry to sound like a father here. Just in a reflective mood today, and you're the latest victim. :-)
 
posted 843 days ago
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gster said:
 
Linda- You'd think with the aura of Big Brother lurking and monitoring seemingly everything, that there would be several copies of what was said to refresh Rumsfeld's and AGG's memories! ??
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Gster, that is exactly what amuses me when a "defender of the faith" cries out "fishing expedition" and "trying to trap a person because of poor memory". Male bovine feces; the material is there, and present recollection refreshed is a perfectly sound legal evidentiary rule. Not to mention the right to review and correct the transcript of testimony offered witnesses by Congressional committees.

Linda, what did you expect? Mr. Rumsfeld, notwithstanding my lack of respect for his actions involving Iraq, is a very competent individual when it comes to testifying before Congress (unlike a certain AG). BTW, I believe he never ordered a coverup, or personally covered anything up concerning the Tillman matter. I'm also certain the White House didn't order one, too. Unstated here is whether one was known to be occurring and left alone; or, if one did occur, was it because of the pernicious effects of command influence, that is, hey, my bosses don't want this out, so I'll take care of it. Thus, the subordinate does the dirty work, and the boss goes free, for he (the boss) didn't do it, certainly there's no evidence he approved it, etc., etc. "Plausible deniability", anyone?
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
BTW, a real, honest to goodness reason why Mr. Rumsfeld might not have been able to review any records to refresh his recollection: depending upon how highly the appropriate information is classified, he may no longer hold the appropriate clearance for access thereto. As Casey Stengel said, "You could look it up".
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Add to end of 3:32 PM post after "thereto." This is true if he was not a direct recipient of or the author of the material so classified, as I recall the rules.
 
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Danny said:
 
Vaughn,

Works for me. I understand that "gut" feeling, that actually happens with us computer science people once in a while. Usually said gut feeling occurs just before something really bad happens. (like not catching a null pointer exception and causing something important not to work properly)... *whistles and directs everyone to walk on by* ;)

 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Danny, hear you loud and clear!
 
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gster said:
 
Danny- Have you ever used assembler or BAL? If you're having a bad day, assembler will finish it off! However, one becomes a good debugger by necessity!
 
posted 843 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
http://tinyurl.com/24q8ge is evidence that "foot in mouth" disease is not limited to, although we all might like to so think, politicians.

Gster, I did some assembly language stuff back in my younger, more foolish, days. I agree that if a bad day is occurring, that will surely finish it off and make one seek employment as a part-time clerk in a convenience store.
 
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gster said:
 
VT- I took Fortran and assembler at WSU so long ago we were running an IBM 370 and using punch card! I found "true patience" after losing my temper with an assembler program and throwing my 3" stack of cards down the Computing Center Hall.

That was a true learning moment!
 
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Danny said:
 
Gster,

Yes, I did minimal assembly in college work(Computer Architecture and Organization) and I can honestly say, I like Java! Both varieties(coffee and the language).

Now, I am happy to say IDE's are much better, and from the horror stories I've heard from professors regarding the "punch cards" I'm glad I have *NEVER* had to experience that torture. Sorry, that is all I can see it being.

The languages I'm comfortable in are: C#(through personal experience in writing a fairly robust client/server card game that can be extended to any game really), Java(through school and professional experience), C/C++(through school and some personal projects), and SML/OcaML. The latter two being used to implement finite automata(state machines) and runtime interpreters of languages(like Featherweight Java).

The only useful feature of the last two, is I don't even want to imagine how difficult coding some of those assignments would have been in an imperative language(C, C++, C#, Java). Yes, not wanting to know something is a very useful feature at times.
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Gster, you bring tears to my eyes, recalling the hours spent on an IBM 026 (and, when really lucky, an IBM 028) keypunch machine, the absolute sick feeling resulting from dropping the deck on the way to the submission room, etc., etc. Ah, Fortran; may the son of the dog who was responsible for it make love to your sister!

Yep, I know; our mainframe in 1969 was a GE 625 (later upgraded to a 635, then somehow morphed into a Honeywell 635) that KU had courtesy of GE, the proviso being that it (the one at the Computer Center) be allowed to be a "platform for experimentation". Oh, the joys of 128 hour turn around times (due to the latest experiment crashing the machine for days), to receive the printout, knowing instantly that I'd fouled up, as the printout was not thick, wondering what fatal error I'd managed to program and not catch before submitting the deck.... "Those were the days, my friend...."
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
The one guilty wish I had back in the day: in 1970 or 1971 (memory fades) when Summerfield Hall (home of the KU School of Business and, at the time, the computer center) was damaged by a bomb, once I'd heard that no one had been hurt, was that the expletive deleted computer had been put out of its misery. Ah, no such luck; it chugged on, faithfully performing its duties in a most erratic way, further depressing yet another whole host of Engineering, Architecture, Business and Computer Science majors.
 
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Danny said:
 
Vaughn,

You sound like some of my professors as they explained why "difficult" was not an excuse for us(the students).
 
posted 843 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Danny, the seniority is really showing, isn't it! :-)

As those reading may have gathered, I was on campus 1968-1973 (4 years undergrad, 1st year law school) when there were many interesting things happening. The weekly (Friday, noon) Iranian students protests against the Shah; the almost daily anti-war protests; the sit-in at the East Asian Studies building by the Womens' Rights Group; the burning of the Student Union; the aforementioned bombing at the Computer Center; the almost daily threats to the Military Science building; the making of finals optional following the Kent State shootings; etc., etc. When returning to Law School following four years with the USAF, it was so quiet that it was BORING!
 
posted 843 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
http://www.slate.com/id/2171510 Excuse the double post, but this is a good analysis of what wasn't discussed in the NYTimes Op-Ed of Monday posted by Tracy in another thread (where I've also posted this link). It's worth consideration.
 
posted 843 days ago
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Danny said:
 
Vaughn,

It's all good though. Besides, I like history and reading about it. My grandfather-in-law is a history professor himself so I have fun conversations with him once in a while. I like to tease him about how some of the rockies were "Kansas Territory" at one time. (Granted I tease my wife and her parents about that also).
 
posted 843 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
A sobering assessment.

So according to the nominee guy currently going thru the mill of confirmation (the guy replacing Pace) the surge ends in April 2008 when current troop levels become unsustainable. How does buscho delay until they can leave office and cast the blame on the next president (or anywhere it lands at long as it's not on them).

WHY isn't someone in Congress smart enough to see the withdrawal must begin now? In fact, several someones? A huge majority of someones?
 
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gster said:
 
VT- I found that I had developed an uncanny ability to screw up the Job card, the first card in the program, so when I returned for my out pt, I had nothing because the program was not assembled or compiled. And I'm sure sure remember that sickening sound of the card reader eating a card and screwing up your program's execution.

It was then I discovered that in Garyland , where i live, my 10 worst enemies are on the end of my hands!


Gary
 
posted 843 days ago
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Danny said:
 
Vaughn and Gster,

Yes, IDEs are where its at. :D
 
posted 842 days ago
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