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TODAY'S TIMES

BORROWED OPINIONS

I CUT THROUGH ALL THE BULLSHIT ON THIS ONE AND WENT RIGHT TO THE ICE CREAM. SINCE THE POPULACE BALKED ON OPEN BORDERS, OUR GOVT. WILL FIND AND IMPLEMENT THE LOOPHOLE PROCESS. BEGINNING NOW!  ~TRACY

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August 8, 2007

U.S. Set for a Crackdown on Illegal Hiring

By JULIA PRESTON

In a new effort to crack down on illegal immigrants, federal authorities are expected to announce tough rules this week that would require employers to fire workers who use false Social Security numbers.

Officials said the rules would be backed up by stepped-up raids on workplaces across the country that employ illegal immigrants.

(SNIP)….continued

AND WHY IT WON’T WORK (one paragraph from the same article)

The expected regulations would give employers a fixed period, perhaps up to 90 days, to resolve any discrepancies between identity information provided by their workers and the records of the Social Security Administration. If workers’ documents cannot be verified, employers would be required to fire them or risk up to $10,000 in fines for knowingly hiring illegal immigrants.

Immigrant rights groups and labor unions, including the
A.F.L.-C.I.O., predicted the rules would unleash discrimination against Hispanic workers. They said they were preparing legal challenges to try to stop them from taking effect.

(SNIP)….continued

(and these closing paragraphs....)

Muzaffar A. Chishti, a director of the Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan research group, said, "If this is strictly enforced there could be massive layoffs of workers." But Mr. Chishti said that illegal immigrant workers might not leave the labor force but would apply for jobs at other businesses using the same invalid documents. He predicted the market for forged documents would grow.

"A lot of employers are saying, ‘We just can’t handle this,’ " said Laura Reiff, co-chairwoman of the Essential Worker Immigration Coalition, which represents employers in low-skilled industries. She said the rules might lead to new pressure from business on Congress to reconsider measures granting legal status to illegal immigrants.

 
 
posted 836 days ago
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gster said:
 
If the borders are not first closed, this process turns into a big never-ending joke!
 
posted 836 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Where to begin?

First, the issue of "illegal aliens" moving from job to job, exploiting the 90 day (or whatever fixed period is set in the final rules) is real. Thus, there must also be mandated a reporting requirement on the employer as to the alien/SSN "fired", with real penalties on employers for not checking this data base before hiring.

Second, the error rate in the SSA database is rather large, as I recall from other readings in this area. Sometimes, it's as simple as an entry error, which can be corrected; sometimes, it appears just a flat out erroneous entry; and sometimes, the apparent "error" is a combination of the SSA not entering a name change, e.g., even though the person has submitted the proper documentation, together with the failure of the person to follow up with SSA.

Third, there are many folks out there that for whatever reason don't notify SSA of a name change, etc. This is remediable by the person supplying the needed documentation, but obtaining the same can be time consuming and expensive.

Fourth, the fines are too low.

Fifth, I have great sympathy for the small businessperson who is trying to do the right thing, but who is struggling with the day to day operation of his/her business. In this context, I don't know if 90 days or 14 days or any other time period is really sufficient. For those who are deliberately violating the law, any time period is too long. Tough dilemma, this one.

Sixth, the "blowback" on Hispanic workers is just too predictable. It may be easier for the employer to fire them all, rather than wrestle with the sometimes Byzantine bureaucracy in trying to straighten it all out, replacing the "fired" workers with new ones for 90 days, e.g., at a time.

Seventh, can there be any doubt that the market for forged documents will grow?

I can continue, but I think my overall attitude on this can be discerned from the above. To me, this stands out as a political move, and not a serious attempt to address the larger issue of illegal immigration. There will be great pressure brought to bear on Congress to overturn the rules by legislative action, IMO, and it will be interesting to watch how this progresses.

There is a serious problem here, but trying to address it in this manner is laughable. I'm all for cracking the employers who knowingly and willingly hire illegals on a regular, recurring basis. However, it remains my firm belief that any real action of a substantive nature requires that there be a comprehensive review of existing law, with the reforms needed being an overall part of the same. To me, that is a "nonstarter" in the current political environment.
 
posted 836 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
gster, assuming, arguendo, that the borders may be successfully "closed", then what is to be done with those already here? As you can tell, I am of the opinion that there will not be "closed" borders so long as there are folks here who will hire those who cross the same unlawfully for sufficient compensation which makes the risk worth it. Thus, diminish the demand.

You are, of course, correct in saying that unless the flow of the "illegals" can be stopped, it turns into a big, administrative circus.
 
posted 836 days ago
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gster said:
 
Vaughn- I agree the "demand" must be diminished. I don't think all illegals currently here can be allowed to stay nor given amnesty; that is a repeat of the last immigration fiasco that was tried in the 80's. Whom ever is allowed to stay should have to undergo a very hard and expensive process that would make it clear to others, that this was not an easy road to follow! Granting automatic citizenship to children born here via illegal entry doesn't seem right and probably greatly adds to the problem

There clearly is no one, or easy solution, however this probem is going to have to be confronted head on and difficult and painful actions be taken. I'm sure the majority of the people we are referring to are honest and hard working people, but coming here illegally is just that. It is not written that because other people have troubles in their native country entitles them to illlegal entry into my country and enjoy the fruits thereof.
 
posted 836 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Gster, on the automatic citizenship issue; see Amendment 14, U.S. Constitution. While we can agree that the original problem being addressed by the wording of said amendment was to give former slaves who were not considered "citizens" (many of whom were here "illegally" or who were born of parents who were here "illegally"), the plain wording of the amendment is that anyone born within the United States is a citizen.

There is no solution to this problem which is easy, simple, or quick. Your comments in the final sentence of your 12:27 PM post are most appropriate. Ironically, one of the announced goals of NAFTA was to improve economic conditions in these countries, which, of course, would have the effect of reducing the number of illegal immigrants to the U.S. (don't know this was ever stated that way), but, as we can see, it (NAFTA) hasn't seemingly had this effect at all.
 
posted 836 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
BTW, gster, it is my prediction, made with great reluctance, that the upshot of the current debate will be something resembling the 1980s "amnesty", resulting from many, if not all, the same pressures on Congress, et al., from the same sources. I seem to recall that there was an election on the horizon when the Reagan Administration encouraged, and Congress enacted, the bill in the 1980s, much as there is now.
 
posted 836 days ago
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gster said:
 
VT- Thanks for the info on automatic citizenship- I thought there was far more to it than I indicated. I'm afraid that your prediction will come to fruition regard a repeat of the 1980 "final solution" Under heavy pressure from big business and all the other dirctions, I'm resonably certain our heroes in Congress will go the usual route of the path with the least reistance and cave in. Thus , the problem is handed off to the next Generation.
 
posted 836 days ago
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