It's not just a good idea....IT'S THE LAW!
MY OPINIONS
WOW!
I love everyone's response to this!
I AGREE 100%, when I saw this woman on the boob tube, and trying to be some saintly martyr, well,
peeee-uke!
And SHAME ON all the greedy bastards that employ these folks too.
I can neither afford to employ her, or COMPETE with her in the job market!
My view is that the law is the law.
OPEN BORDERS ARE NOT FAIR TO ANYONE!
The illegals, U.S. citizens, the kid, the law enforcement, EVERYONE!
I don't know 'bout ya'll, but I've gotten to like Lou Dobbs, and The Cafferty File!
And to think that on the other bloggie I was painted as an evil lib! HA!
Rox said:
I agree. The law IS the law and should be enforced.
I've been called a racist for that. By some fellow liberals.
I can accept a worker program, if, indeed, we need it. But it would have to be limited.
I've been called a racist for that. By some fellow liberals.
I can accept a worker program, if, indeed, we need it. But it would have to be limited.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Well, Rox, it seems to me that in some areas there is a need for non-citizen workers. Example: Microsoft's inability to hire sufficient U.S. native born engineers to work at the home facility, Gates was bemoaning this fact, but sought an increase in whatever visa type it is that allows foreign engineers to enter the country (filled to some degree by those from India, IIRC). Again, this was not to lower wages, as I understand it, but merely the situation where there was sufficient supply to meet the demand. I've heard of other areas of the economy in similar predicaments; e.g., the need for U.S.D. 259 to go to the Philippines to obtain sufficiently trained and educated teachers for high school math and special education. When I talked with Mr. Brooks at a school-related function, he said he'd rather hire "locals", but there were insufficient graduates from the WSU ed school in secondary math education to fill all the vacancies in 259, much less to compete with other districts in the state; and that other districts were recruiting earlier, making it more difficult for 259 to hire from KU, KSU, Emporia State, etc. Special Ed is a particular hard nut to crack, as I understand it; not enough graduates to fill the need.
This will lead me back to the decreasing numbers of students who will even consider math/science majors as undergrads, let alone the issue of those willing to enter the field of education with an interest in those areas. So much to keyboard, so little time, so for now, I'm out on this one.
This will lead me back to the decreasing numbers of students who will even consider math/science majors as undergrads, let alone the issue of those willing to enter the field of education with an interest in those areas. So much to keyboard, so little time, so for now, I'm out on this one.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Tracy, you're painted as an evil liberal because you don't rely on the sayings of HannityLimbaughOReilly in arriving at your position. Mr. Dobbs makes some valid points, but he gets a bit much for me from time to time. Cafferty's persona is one of a crusty old curmudgeon, which allows me to watch him a bit more. Or, maybe that should be an inconoclast; I don't know, the thinking process is a bit muddled right now.
Vaughn Tolle said:
http://tinyurl.com/2atsmr
OK, trying tinyurl.com again. This time, a link to the op-ed written (very, very well written) by members of the 82nd Airborne in Iraq on their view of "how things are going" that gained a small amount of mention last night on MSNBC (2 shows). I commend it to your attention.
OK, trying tinyurl.com again. This time, a link to the op-ed written (very, very well written) by members of the 82nd Airborne in Iraq on their view of "how things are going" that gained a small amount of mention last night on MSNBC (2 shows). I commend it to your attention.
lindainks55 said:
Vaughn, My daughter and I were talking about the USD259 / math / WSU situation just this week. Her hubby still teaches in 259, she still has an office at Corbin -- just to let you know they are in contact with teachers and have some insight worth sharing. I will list some of the points she made in no particular order. And please remember I am repeating as well as I remember what she said. It may be like the old children's game of gossip whereby I repeat one word wrong and it changes too much. ;-)
WSU is a state school and prepares teachers for state certification. 70% of students in this state are in rural areas. Her thoughts on IF 259 is too large, diverse, different than all other districts then it needs to be split or allowed to be the many smaller parts it really is. i.e., there are schools where the population is mostly Spanish speaking, there are schools where there is high parental participation... Across 259 are many schools representing diverse needs and those in that school probably know their school's needs better than "downtown."
They know several teachers certified to teach math who do not because 259 demands the exact page they will be working on this day and the next and the next (all 259 schools K - 12!). No teacher has the latitude to teach what the class is ready to learn, no teacher is allowed to be the professional they trained to be. Next time you speak with Mr. Brooks ask him about his retention rate, ask him how many qualified teachers have left vacancies he fills with those teachers from The Philippines. Ask him if 259 teachers are allowed to use the education they worked for and if they are allowed to be the professionals they prepared to be. Ask him how many on the payroll are classified as "teachers" but do not teach! Ask him to tell the truth and give the real problems some light of day.
I'll stop now because you can probably tell I'm not well pleased. Mr. Brooks is the last person I would trust to know who to tackle the problems USD259 faces!
WSU is a state school and prepares teachers for state certification. 70% of students in this state are in rural areas. Her thoughts on IF 259 is too large, diverse, different than all other districts then it needs to be split or allowed to be the many smaller parts it really is. i.e., there are schools where the population is mostly Spanish speaking, there are schools where there is high parental participation... Across 259 are many schools representing diverse needs and those in that school probably know their school's needs better than "downtown."
They know several teachers certified to teach math who do not because 259 demands the exact page they will be working on this day and the next and the next (all 259 schools K - 12!). No teacher has the latitude to teach what the class is ready to learn, no teacher is allowed to be the professional they trained to be. Next time you speak with Mr. Brooks ask him about his retention rate, ask him how many qualified teachers have left vacancies he fills with those teachers from The Philippines. Ask him if 259 teachers are allowed to use the education they worked for and if they are allowed to be the professionals they prepared to be. Ask him how many on the payroll are classified as "teachers" but do not teach! Ask him to tell the truth and give the real problems some light of day.
I'll stop now because you can probably tell I'm not well pleased. Mr. Brooks is the last person I would trust to know who to tackle the problems USD259 faces!
lindainks55 said:
And to be as fair as I can to Mr. Brooks he is charged with showing the adequate improvement so the schools will pass so NCLB must bear some of the responsibility.
Tracy Phillips said:
I fancy myself a 'crusty old iconoclastic curmudgeon'.
Even though I could never say that ten times fast!
Bill Gates has enough money to fund his own university. If Bill & Melinda really wanna be charitable, they should PAY the best American students to go there!
Even though I could never say that ten times fast!
Bill Gates has enough money to fund his own university. If Bill & Melinda really wanna be charitable, they should PAY the best American students to go there!
Danny said:
Linda,
What you described I think is one of the reasons that one of my sisters(yeah I've more than one sister) decided to not do education. She since switched over to medicine(now in my entire family on my dad and myself are not in the medical field in some capacity).
However, I think you did say something very important here. If teachers are not allowed to teach in the capacity they are capable of, not only are they not happy, they are going to be hard to retain and attract. Thus creating a need for those not from the local base to have to come in and teach.
What you described I think is one of the reasons that one of my sisters(yeah I've more than one sister) decided to not do education. She since switched over to medicine(now in my entire family on my dad and myself are not in the medical field in some capacity).
However, I think you did say something very important here. If teachers are not allowed to teach in the capacity they are capable of, not only are they not happy, they are going to be hard to retain and attract. Thus creating a need for those not from the local base to have to come in and teach.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Linda, your points on Mr. Brooks are well taken. While he is an extremely nice man socially, he is NOT well placed to run 259. His formal education and training, as I understand it, are all centered around elementary education, which, it seems to me, makes him not well suited to handle issues at the middle school and particularly high school level. Plus, he and I are often in great disagreement concerning issues on which I have an opinion. I basically have "agreed to disagree" with him on these.
Re: your comments on folks classified as teachers who are not in the classroom. Yep, know about 6 personally. On the "be on the same page as everyone else every day", this is something that I have quietly groused about to anyone who will listen. I'm sure you are aware of the perceived need for this, namely the mobility among buildings of low SES students who are changing residences (well, OK, whose parent(s) are changing residences) whenever eviction looms, or the issue involving "migrant students", or the movement of students among buildings as the result of disciplinary actions. This is a tough one; I feel on this issue the same as I feel about regular ed classroom integration of Special Ed students, namely, the majority of the students in that situation are getting the shaft. If I may, I place part of the blame for this on the NCLB rules.
Whether 259 is becoming/has become too large/diverse, well, given the way funding is handled at the state level, I see no politically acceptable way for it to be divided into a number of smaller districts. While it might be, in the abstract, a good idea, won't happen; ever, in my opinion.
Yes, building administrators likely know their needs much more clearly than "downtown". This has been a rather nagging issue throughout my involvement with the district as a parent, now a community rep, which started in the waning days of Dr. Berger and which continues through the present. Should building administrators be given the power to "raid" the faculty of other schools within the district to fill that particular building's faculty needs? This is one potential outcome of totally freeing the buildings from any supervision in hiring/firing (yeah, I know there's really no "firing", but you get the drift) of faculty.
It is interesting to note that the district seems hell-bent to wreck one of its more successful programs, the one at NEMHS, by treating it in certain ways as a "comprehensive" high school, instead of allowing it to continue as a magnet program. I will, in the interest of time and space, leave that alone at that thought, noting merely the administrative transfer into Northeast of certain students as the result of decisions made at hearings, which, by and large, result in that student being transferred again.
I would also note here, albeit off topic a bit, of the need of my wife's employer to recruit nationally due to the shortage of qualified teachers willing to leave the mother ship of 259 or other districts to teach there. Yes, salary and benefits are a part of the equation, to be sure; but, if a teacher really wants to teach, free from unrealistic controls, and to utilize their education as professionals, it would seem to me that there are opportunities for that to happen which are frankly not being responded to by the local folks.
As you might have determined, I've a number of very strongly held opinions about the way things are done in 259, many of which are in direct opposition to those who implement the policies, etc. I close with my ever constant concern that the effect of NCLB will be, unless drastically changed, a movement of all students "to the middle", resulting in a nation of mediocrity, not excellence. It seems to me Mr. Brooks, among others, have bought into this, to the disadvantage of students and parents in 259.
Re: your comments on folks classified as teachers who are not in the classroom. Yep, know about 6 personally. On the "be on the same page as everyone else every day", this is something that I have quietly groused about to anyone who will listen. I'm sure you are aware of the perceived need for this, namely the mobility among buildings of low SES students who are changing residences (well, OK, whose parent(s) are changing residences) whenever eviction looms, or the issue involving "migrant students", or the movement of students among buildings as the result of disciplinary actions. This is a tough one; I feel on this issue the same as I feel about regular ed classroom integration of Special Ed students, namely, the majority of the students in that situation are getting the shaft. If I may, I place part of the blame for this on the NCLB rules.
Whether 259 is becoming/has become too large/diverse, well, given the way funding is handled at the state level, I see no politically acceptable way for it to be divided into a number of smaller districts. While it might be, in the abstract, a good idea, won't happen; ever, in my opinion.
Yes, building administrators likely know their needs much more clearly than "downtown". This has been a rather nagging issue throughout my involvement with the district as a parent, now a community rep, which started in the waning days of Dr. Berger and which continues through the present. Should building administrators be given the power to "raid" the faculty of other schools within the district to fill that particular building's faculty needs? This is one potential outcome of totally freeing the buildings from any supervision in hiring/firing (yeah, I know there's really no "firing", but you get the drift) of faculty.
It is interesting to note that the district seems hell-bent to wreck one of its more successful programs, the one at NEMHS, by treating it in certain ways as a "comprehensive" high school, instead of allowing it to continue as a magnet program. I will, in the interest of time and space, leave that alone at that thought, noting merely the administrative transfer into Northeast of certain students as the result of decisions made at hearings, which, by and large, result in that student being transferred again.
I would also note here, albeit off topic a bit, of the need of my wife's employer to recruit nationally due to the shortage of qualified teachers willing to leave the mother ship of 259 or other districts to teach there. Yes, salary and benefits are a part of the equation, to be sure; but, if a teacher really wants to teach, free from unrealistic controls, and to utilize their education as professionals, it would seem to me that there are opportunities for that to happen which are frankly not being responded to by the local folks.
As you might have determined, I've a number of very strongly held opinions about the way things are done in 259, many of which are in direct opposition to those who implement the policies, etc. I close with my ever constant concern that the effect of NCLB will be, unless drastically changed, a movement of all students "to the middle", resulting in a nation of mediocrity, not excellence. It seems to me Mr. Brooks, among others, have bought into this, to the disadvantage of students and parents in 259.
Danny said:
Tracy,
I see it completely differently, please take this being my observation of what I had seen while attending school. In general, it seems the American college student is lazy or would rather party all night than work out a simple math or science problem.
While there is no doubt that I've seen some American students who were very smart, did work hard, and tried to work through homework before going out and partying, those seemed the exception rather than the norm(even in the College of Engineering).
By comparison, the foreign students generally worked hard to maintain very good GPAs(3.5+) because in order to stay here as a student they had to, and they knew that in order to get a job(possibly here) they had to also. Again, some American students saw this.
The question then becomes, are Americans qualified? Certainly, I'd argue that some with less than a 3.0 GPA are probably qualified but are going to have a more difficult time proving it. I'd argue that the majority may not be though. The work ethic of some was atrocious.
Thus I feel the real work needs to be done at the student level and parents need to work toward instilling that sense of work ethic and pride in their children. The look what I did, the curiosity to wonder why something works or how to make something similar needs to be instilled at an early age.
When working at my two jobs I saw a difference of night and day. My campus job was working on: http://www.axiolearning.org and my other job was call center work. The majority of the people working at the second job was students. With the exception of a few, all of them didn't seem to care about the job, or school, or even cared to think about what was going to happen upon graduation(except they'd have a "real" job).
This idea of having a real job, seems to be part of some misguided reality as if that is some right that they think they should have. I pity them, but at the same time, they only have themselves to blame for not taking college seriously enough. As I view college, the degree papers mean one thing to employers, what was my ability to learn and my effort toward learning. Nothing more. The only indicator used to determine that, GPA.
I see it completely differently, please take this being my observation of what I had seen while attending school. In general, it seems the American college student is lazy or would rather party all night than work out a simple math or science problem.
While there is no doubt that I've seen some American students who were very smart, did work hard, and tried to work through homework before going out and partying, those seemed the exception rather than the norm(even in the College of Engineering).
By comparison, the foreign students generally worked hard to maintain very good GPAs(3.5+) because in order to stay here as a student they had to, and they knew that in order to get a job(possibly here) they had to also. Again, some American students saw this.
The question then becomes, are Americans qualified? Certainly, I'd argue that some with less than a 3.0 GPA are probably qualified but are going to have a more difficult time proving it. I'd argue that the majority may not be though. The work ethic of some was atrocious.
Thus I feel the real work needs to be done at the student level and parents need to work toward instilling that sense of work ethic and pride in their children. The look what I did, the curiosity to wonder why something works or how to make something similar needs to be instilled at an early age.
When working at my two jobs I saw a difference of night and day. My campus job was working on: http://www.axiolearning.org and my other job was call center work. The majority of the people working at the second job was students. With the exception of a few, all of them didn't seem to care about the job, or school, or even cared to think about what was going to happen upon graduation(except they'd have a "real" job).
This idea of having a real job, seems to be part of some misguided reality as if that is some right that they think they should have. I pity them, but at the same time, they only have themselves to blame for not taking college seriously enough. As I view college, the degree papers mean one thing to employers, what was my ability to learn and my effort toward learning. Nothing more. The only indicator used to determine that, GPA.
lindainks55 said:
I've taken a deep breath and I apologize to each of you for my rant. I'm not a fan of Mr. Brooks (could you tell) and am so passionate about education I should always write an opinion, walk away for awhile, reread and then maybe post.
There was an article in last Sunday's paper about the new Provost at WSU. It said he meets monthly with Mr. Brooks. That is what really set me off. Mr. Brooks doesn't speak with the teachers once they veer off the acceptable (he kinda reminds me of another leader who doesn't need to hear dissent). I don't think it is right for a state school to pander to a school district.
Isn't it usually at least worth listening to those who are most affected, those in the trenches who may also have suggestions?
I promise to attempt control and not subject YOU my friends to my rants too often!
There was an article in last Sunday's paper about the new Provost at WSU. It said he meets monthly with Mr. Brooks. That is what really set me off. Mr. Brooks doesn't speak with the teachers once they veer off the acceptable (he kinda reminds me of another leader who doesn't need to hear dissent). I don't think it is right for a state school to pander to a school district.
Isn't it usually at least worth listening to those who are most affected, those in the trenches who may also have suggestions?
I promise to attempt control and not subject YOU my friends to my rants too often!
Vaughn Tolle said:
And to be fair to Mr. Brooks and others, on the "bought into" statement; they have no real choice on the matter. There are ways, however, whereby the NCLB requirements can be met without wrecking the whole system.
Tracy, the Gates Foundation is currently only funding minority students in the areas of need. I would really like to bend their ear a bit on this, as I feel the scope of the largesse could and should be enlarged, to the benefit of all. Not to forget the Gates initiative to provide funding for small, innovative schools (kinda, sorta like the NEMHS Science magnet program) which emphasize things such as math and science, which, to my knowledge, has no particular "minority" emphasis.
Tracy, the Gates Foundation is currently only funding minority students in the areas of need. I would really like to bend their ear a bit on this, as I feel the scope of the largesse could and should be enlarged, to the benefit of all. Not to forget the Gates initiative to provide funding for small, innovative schools (kinda, sorta like the NEMHS Science magnet program) which emphasize things such as math and science, which, to my knowledge, has no particular "minority" emphasis.
Danny said:
Linda,
No need to apologize to me. From listening to my sister who, as I stated earlier, was pursuing education then changed her mind, well I've certainly heard enough to question what happens in 259. Granted, I didn't attend public schools, but my parents sacrificed alot of wants(and perhaps even some needs) for us to attend private schools.
At the same time, I wonder how much of the problem is to blame on schools, students, parents, teachers, and those in charge of what is taught. As you can see from my 2:17pm post, I put alot of blame on students and parents. Perhaps not all of it should be placed squarely there, and college isn't exactly and good comparison to use against high school, but maybe it does say something about the K-12 environment?
No need to apologize to me. From listening to my sister who, as I stated earlier, was pursuing education then changed her mind, well I've certainly heard enough to question what happens in 259. Granted, I didn't attend public schools, but my parents sacrificed alot of wants(and perhaps even some needs) for us to attend private schools.
At the same time, I wonder how much of the problem is to blame on schools, students, parents, teachers, and those in charge of what is taught. As you can see from my 2:17pm post, I put alot of blame on students and parents. Perhaps not all of it should be placed squarely there, and college isn't exactly and good comparison to use against high school, but maybe it does say something about the K-12 environment?
lindainks55 said:
Well shoot, we're posting all at the same time and I'm behind. ALWAYS behind! giggle
Vaughn, I know the man (Tom) who teaches history and was assistant principal at NEMS. I think it is a jewel of 259. My grandsons have all been in the IB program; the youngest started last week as a freshman. Good things are happening in 259 but all too often they happen in spite of Mr. Brooks and NCLB. Just think of what could be if the impediments were removed!
Vaughn, I know the man (Tom) who teaches history and was assistant principal at NEMS. I think it is a jewel of 259. My grandsons have all been in the IB program; the youngest started last week as a freshman. Good things are happening in 259 but all too often they happen in spite of Mr. Brooks and NCLB. Just think of what could be if the impediments were removed!
Vaughn Tolle said:
Linda, here I go again; no deep breaths, steps back for me!
This is one area of disagreement with Mr. Brooks; WSU owes him no more nor less than any other superintendent of a school district in Kansas. His (Brooks') attitude that WSU should focus solely on the needs of 259 is, seriatim, unrealisitc, immature, pompous, conceited, self-important... well, you get the picture. Yes, 259 through programs such as "Grow Your Own Teachers" contributes to the overall enrollment there, and thereby additional funding. If I was the Provost, I think I'd see him as often as I saw the Superintendent from Dighton, Kansas (if Dighton still has a separate district). No more, no less.
Danny, without boring all here further, I suggest that the attitude you describe is all too common in the Regents' schools, at least. Hey, it was there in my day, too; only in my day, there was the incentive of the draft to keep one on the path. It seems to have declined, that is, the partying starts earlier in the week, goes later into the weekend, etc. Back in my day (I hear the groans now), there were classes on Saturday mornings, for example. I don't know this happens on any regular basis now. Even the School of Law at KU discontinued the one hour a day Thursday, Friday, Saturday class schedule in favor of the 1.5 hour a day Thursday and Friday schedule. Well, if there are any law students paying attention, lawyers work on Saturday! Really. No fooling.
This is one area of disagreement with Mr. Brooks; WSU owes him no more nor less than any other superintendent of a school district in Kansas. His (Brooks') attitude that WSU should focus solely on the needs of 259 is, seriatim, unrealisitc, immature, pompous, conceited, self-important... well, you get the picture. Yes, 259 through programs such as "Grow Your Own Teachers" contributes to the overall enrollment there, and thereby additional funding. If I was the Provost, I think I'd see him as often as I saw the Superintendent from Dighton, Kansas (if Dighton still has a separate district). No more, no less.
Danny, without boring all here further, I suggest that the attitude you describe is all too common in the Regents' schools, at least. Hey, it was there in my day, too; only in my day, there was the incentive of the draft to keep one on the path. It seems to have declined, that is, the partying starts earlier in the week, goes later into the weekend, etc. Back in my day (I hear the groans now), there were classes on Saturday mornings, for example. I don't know this happens on any regular basis now. Even the School of Law at KU discontinued the one hour a day Thursday, Friday, Saturday class schedule in favor of the 1.5 hour a day Thursday and Friday schedule. Well, if there are any law students paying attention, lawyers work on Saturday! Really. No fooling.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Not to falsely suggest everything is all "peaches and cream" in the private schools. PARENTS are the biggest impediment to their students' educations in many cases. I'll not violate any confidences here, but there is a term I picked up from being around where my wife works: "alibi parents". I slipped one site council meeting and used it, and, much to my surprise, it was immediately recognized and adopted as a truism there, too.
Then, the "helicopter" parents who inhibit the growth and maturation of the students. A phenomenon which has recently been reported as bedeviling colleges, it is characterized by the "hovering" of the parent(s), making decisions for their students, questioning everything from grades to class assignments concerning the students, all in the interests of helping their students avoidance of the consequences of their actions. Starting to see these types at the MIDDLE SCHOOL level now; freaking unbelievable.
Then, the "helicopter" parents who inhibit the growth and maturation of the students. A phenomenon which has recently been reported as bedeviling colleges, it is characterized by the "hovering" of the parent(s), making decisions for their students, questioning everything from grades to class assignments concerning the students, all in the interests of helping their students avoidance of the consequences of their actions. Starting to see these types at the MIDDLE SCHOOL level now; freaking unbelievable.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Linda, your grandsons are to be commended. Our girls decided independently of us and each other that the IB program was not for them. Yes, Tom's a good man. The current principal at NE is Joel Hudson, who started there as a teacher, was assistant principal there while working on his degree at WSU, then has returned following the tragic death of David Wessling. Mr. Hudson has continued the "tradition" at NE, and things are most definitely still on the rise there.
There is something going on in the high schools which troubles me. It is not limited to 259. It is the allowance of students who do not complete their exams during the normal allotted time to come in over lunch, after school, etc. to finish up. While I understand the reason is to ensure learning, it is poor preparation for college (unless the colleges are doing this, too, and if so, I missed something here as neither of the girls have reported this luxury). Another thing is the allowance of a "make up" test where the student has not done well on the original test. Bad, bad ideas IMHO.
There is something going on in the high schools which troubles me. It is not limited to 259. It is the allowance of students who do not complete their exams during the normal allotted time to come in over lunch, after school, etc. to finish up. While I understand the reason is to ensure learning, it is poor preparation for college (unless the colleges are doing this, too, and if so, I missed something here as neither of the girls have reported this luxury). Another thing is the allowance of a "make up" test where the student has not done well on the original test. Bad, bad ideas IMHO.
Danny said:
Vaughn,
Exactly. I don't think schools and government can solve all the educational problems *IF* nothing happens to address where(at least in my opinion) the home front doesn't change its attitude about children and education.
Education isn't meant to be a cake walk(hehe), but then again neither is real life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying going out with friends is a bad thing, but understanding that the educational process isn't going to stop because friend A broke up with significant other C there by calling for a mutual friend Jack to rescue friend A. ;)
Exactly. I don't think schools and government can solve all the educational problems *IF* nothing happens to address where(at least in my opinion) the home front doesn't change its attitude about children and education.
Education isn't meant to be a cake walk(hehe), but then again neither is real life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying going out with friends is a bad thing, but understanding that the educational process isn't going to stop because friend A broke up with significant other C there by calling for a mutual friend Jack to rescue friend A. ;)
Vaughn Tolle said:
One more shot at 259 in particular, and the state of Kansas in general. There are several states which have a "math and science academy" where students from all over the state who qualify attend in the final two years of high school (at least). A proposal for this type of institution (yes, it's a "boarding school") has been made in the past, only to run into opposition from (are you ready?) 259 as well as a number of other districts. The schools don't want to lose that number of high-performers, and, together with the fear this type of academy would be populated in great part by students from Johnson County, this has served to "kill" the idea. This is short-sighted and foolish, in my opinion. If there is a crisis in math and science, as I keep reading, then we, as a state, and other states, as a part of this country, need to endorse these types of schools and promote their establishment and continuation.
I'm a supporter of this idea. Big surprise, huh? I've been told on numerous occasions that this will not happen in Kansas, at least not in my lifetime, and to concentrate on matters of more local concern. Sorry, I'm a sore loser, and so will lift my voice in support of this idea each and every time it is raised.
I'm a supporter of this idea. Big surprise, huh? I've been told on numerous occasions that this will not happen in Kansas, at least not in my lifetime, and to concentrate on matters of more local concern. Sorry, I'm a sore loser, and so will lift my voice in support of this idea each and every time it is raised.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Yep, Danny, understand and read you loud and clear.
One would think where one is paying ~$7000/year tuition, the parents would be more concerned with education rather than complaining when little Suzie's homework conflicts with her riding lessons (or dance lessons, or any number of extracurricular activities). Or, taking the attitude that "I paid the tuition, now it's your problem" when academic issues arise. I've many more examples, but they all start sounding the same after a while.
One would think where one is paying ~$7000/year tuition, the parents would be more concerned with education rather than complaining when little Suzie's homework conflicts with her riding lessons (or dance lessons, or any number of extracurricular activities). Or, taking the attitude that "I paid the tuition, now it's your problem" when academic issues arise. I've many more examples, but they all start sounding the same after a while.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Or, in the public school arena, parents complaining when grades are placing the next LeBron James' eligibility in question. Hey, this may not be p.c., but kid, if you put half as much effort into your homework as you do into your jump shot, you'd be a whole lot better off! And, btw, kid, heard of the NCAA Clearing House, standardized test scores and required coursework to be eligible for that athletic scholarship? You need to pay attention there, kid, or else you'll be on the back of a garbage truck (not to demean sanitation workers, but they generally cannot afford to buy their mothers a $1 million house).
Rox said:
VT, Clearwater schools had that same "make up" mindset several years ago, back when (I think) my oldest was in middle school. There's a name for it, but my mind is blank at the moment. In fact, each student was given 3 times to take a test. The first and two afterward, if they, A) Failed the test, or B) Wanted to retake for a higher grade. It was to "help" those who weren't getting good grades, but what it did was make them all lazy.
Thanks for all the info, everyone. My oldest granddaughter started kindergarten on Friday, and I know very, very little about USD259, as my 3 oldest attended Clearwater schools, K-12.
Thanks for all the info, everyone. My oldest granddaughter started kindergarten on Friday, and I know very, very little about USD259, as my 3 oldest attended Clearwater schools, K-12.
Tracy Phillips said:
The Gates thingy:
I'm talking about the U.S. students who top the class.
Not just giving out money because you are an american.
And not for just minorities.
We should not judge and/or favor anyone because of what color they are.
I'm talking about the U.S. students who top the class.
Not just giving out money because you are an american.
And not for just minorities.
We should not judge and/or favor anyone because of what color they are.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Tracy, I hear you loud and clear. The current Gates Scholar program, which guarantees a certain stipend from undergrad school all the way through Ph.D. level, if the student wishes to go that far, is currently limited to underrepresented minorities in math and science. A very bright A-A young woman from NEMHS was named a Gates Scholar (or is it a Gates Fellow) this past spring. As to starting their own university, I don't see that happening, but given the need to spend Mr. Buffet's contribution, it might happen.
The Gates Foundation thing on the schools is to help fund new high schools concentrating in math and the sciences, regardless of race, etc. It is to attract the top students to these areas.
The Gates Foundation thing on the schools is to help fund new high schools concentrating in math and the sciences, regardless of race, etc. It is to attract the top students to these areas.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Rox, what follows is my advice concerning the granddaughter. Linda and others, please chime in, too.
First, you should investigate the various magnet programs at the elementary level. While I'm not a big fan of these programs, there are several which are of note in town. You might also check out the "Grading Our Schools" article which appears in the Eagle annually to look at the standardized test scores and the AYP for the schools in which your granddaughter might have an interest. Usually published in December, IIRC.
Second, the Choices Fair is a must to get better acquainted with the magnet programs. This is in January each year. Traditionally, at CII.
Third, if there is a suitable magnet program, be sure the application is timely made.
Fourth, pay specific attention to the "traditional" magnet programs; they are, as I understand it, centered around phonetics in reading, etc., and use the same curriculum in this area our girls experienced while in elementary school at TIS. These schools are VERY popular, and often have long waiting lists.
There's so much more I can say once at the middle school and high school levels, but the above is my contribution for the elementary schools.
First, you should investigate the various magnet programs at the elementary level. While I'm not a big fan of these programs, there are several which are of note in town. You might also check out the "Grading Our Schools" article which appears in the Eagle annually to look at the standardized test scores and the AYP for the schools in which your granddaughter might have an interest. Usually published in December, IIRC.
Second, the Choices Fair is a must to get better acquainted with the magnet programs. This is in January each year. Traditionally, at CII.
Third, if there is a suitable magnet program, be sure the application is timely made.
Fourth, pay specific attention to the "traditional" magnet programs; they are, as I understand it, centered around phonetics in reading, etc., and use the same curriculum in this area our girls experienced while in elementary school at TIS. These schools are VERY popular, and often have long waiting lists.
There's so much more I can say once at the middle school and high school levels, but the above is my contribution for the elementary schools.
lindainks55 said:
Rox, I agree with everything Vaughn said. Sadly, the traditional magnets are such a success that those parents who made application for the PREkindergarter have a space held for 1st grade, 2nd grade... So, the children whose parents knew nothing until their child was in school all too often waited too late and must depend on someone moving, changing their minds, etc.
The Choices Fair is an absolute must! And, ask hard questions you have written down in advance. Don't just look but actively engage with each booth. It is crowded so plan to arrive at the start hour so you have enough time.
And the best advice you already know! It is the same as when we were in school, or had our own in school -- stay alert to signs of anything and everything. Children love to go to school, to learn and find success. If there is a sad youngster there is a problem that needs to be discovered and solved.
The Choices Fair is an absolute must! And, ask hard questions you have written down in advance. Don't just look but actively engage with each booth. It is crowded so plan to arrive at the start hour so you have enough time.
And the best advice you already know! It is the same as when we were in school, or had our own in school -- stay alert to signs of anything and everything. Children love to go to school, to learn and find success. If there is a sad youngster there is a problem that needs to be discovered and solved.
Danny said:
Vaughn,
Absolutely you'd have my support on a math and science boarding school! I think it is something that could be used and would be really nice to be had. I'm sorry I think it is something that would be a plus to the educational system as a whole. As for "losing" the best students, the only loss in my opinion is not having something like that.
Who cares where it located at(or if this really is a legitimate concern do what I say next). Shoot make three of them, one to server Western Kansas, one to serve South East/South Central Kansas, and one to server the North East Kansas.
Absolutely you'd have my support on a math and science boarding school! I think it is something that could be used and would be really nice to be had. I'm sorry I think it is something that would be a plus to the educational system as a whole. As for "losing" the best students, the only loss in my opinion is not having something like that.
Who cares where it located at(or if this really is a legitimate concern do what I say next). Shoot make three of them, one to server Western Kansas, one to serve South East/South Central Kansas, and one to server the North East Kansas.
Rox said:
VT, thanks for the info. I'll pass it on to my daughter. I'm just the baby-sitter. LOL The next granddaughter starts pre-K on Monday, so I'll be on a 3-trip daily schedule to take and pick up. Just like the good ol' days.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Well, Danny, the location wasn't that much of a concern (IIRC, Salina was a proposed site, given its relatively central location), but the real concern was that if totally merit based, there was a seeming consensus of opinion among the opponents that 75% of the students would be from JoCo, and that wasn't fair. A proposal was made, as I understand it, that there be an allocation be made of space on a geographical basis, but that defeats the idea of a total merit-based application/admission policy, so that one went nowhere fast.
And yes, for areas outside of JoCo, Lawrence and Manhattan, for example, many of the "top students" are lost to private schools, meaning the $$ associated with them are also lost to the districts. IB here in Wichita (and to a lesser extent, NEMHS) keeps many top students in the district, but if one takes a look at the accomplishment level of the TIS Upper School, one may see a substantial number of really good students who are not in the district; Collegiate is another example; and, to a somewhat lesser degree, Trinity Academy. In Topeka there is Topeka Collegiate that pulls high level students from Topeka and surrounding districts. In Western Kansas, there is Thomas Moore Prep in Hays, for example.
And yes, for areas outside of JoCo, Lawrence and Manhattan, for example, many of the "top students" are lost to private schools, meaning the $$ associated with them are also lost to the districts. IB here in Wichita (and to a lesser extent, NEMHS) keeps many top students in the district, but if one takes a look at the accomplishment level of the TIS Upper School, one may see a substantial number of really good students who are not in the district; Collegiate is another example; and, to a somewhat lesser degree, Trinity Academy. In Topeka there is Topeka Collegiate that pulls high level students from Topeka and surrounding districts. In Western Kansas, there is Thomas Moore Prep in Hays, for example.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Oops, omitted Kapaun and Carroll from my discussion of "private" schools, purely due to not paying attention.
Rox said:
Linda, thanks! I missed your post before leaving for after-school pick up and just noticed it.
As I mentioned, we're all new to the Wichita schools (I attended grade school here), so there's plenty of room to learn.
The oldest g-daughter seems to really like school. I hope it sticks. Next one (they're cousins) is very jealous and ready to start TODAY. Monday can't come soon enough for her.
As I mentioned, we're all new to the Wichita schools (I attended grade school here), so there's plenty of room to learn.
The oldest g-daughter seems to really like school. I hope it sticks. Next one (they're cousins) is very jealous and ready to start TODAY. Monday can't come soon enough for her.
Vaughn Tolle said:
http://www.kansas.com/news/updates/story/154080.ht...
Above is somehow appropriate to the middle part of the discussion, I think.
Above is somehow appropriate to the middle part of the discussion, I think.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Hmm, just finished reading an interesting email from the elder. Apparently, unlike Kansas, Minnesota has an issue only with Physics teachers in high school. From my reading of her email, the elder has secured a half-time position teaching Chemistry in a suburban St. Paul High School. She also relates her disappointment at not getting a job in the highest rated high school in the Minneapolis area, one which was either for 60% Chemistry/40% Math or 60% Chemistry/40% Physics. However, the administrator who interviewed her has almost apologized for not offering her the job, and requested she contact them next hiring season before considering any other position (by which time, as I understand it, she'll have her Math certification to go along with her Chemistry and Biology). It's her speculation that there was an applicant who could do both Chem and Physics who received the offer, given her experience with other schools, etc. and positions open.
As I think I've posted previously, it strikes me as strange that in Kansas there is a major push to get everyone hired by June, while Minnesota doesn't get serious until August...
As I think I've posted previously, it strikes me as strange that in Kansas there is a major push to get everyone hired by June, while Minnesota doesn't get serious until August...
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