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MinutemanMedia.org

BORROWED OPINIONS

THE HIGH COST OF VENGEFUL WAR – by Daniel M. Smith 

As the sixth anniversary of 9/11 approaches, President George W. Bush’s media picture of Iraq grows increasingly unreal. In truth, Iraq is devolving into a series of Potemkin villages, quiet now, with military-age men receiving training, arms, and money from the United States in a “marriage of temporary interests.”

Every Iraqi knows that eventually U.S. and coalition troops will leave. That’s why 100,000 Iraqis a month continue to flee. They expect that once U.S. forces and their monetary handouts are gone, the old tribal loyalties and sectarianisms will reassert themselves. 

That’s the present and future reality. It’s the legacy from the 2001 destruction of the World Trade Center towers and one wing of the Pentagon when hijackers flew three civilian airliners into the structures and a fourth crashed in Pennsylvania when passengers tried to regain control. 

The death toll that 9/11 – (minus the 19 hijackers) – was 2,973. Ironically, in the subsequent retributive “war on terror” in Afghanistan and Iraq, undertaken to punish those responsible and their supporters, the number of U.S. military personnel killed passed that total on September 3, 2006, just days short of the fifth anniversary of the attack: 329 in Afghanistan, 2,645 in Iraq. 

One year later, U.S. losses in Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan) are 438, including 81 in the first eight months of 2007. Projecting current trend lines, it is likely that at year’s end the count will easily surpass 100, making 2007 the bloodiest year of this war. As for the Afghan people, their losses over the last six years remain largely unrecorded. However, drawing on recent U.N. and confidential Afghan Interior Ministry reports, one source estimated 1,400 Afghan civilians were killed in war-related violence in the first 8 months of 2007.  

The very real possibility looms that the burden of blood and treasure lost will increase disproportionately for the United States over the next year. Key NATO allies in the Afghan war are becoming disenchanted by the growing losses in a conflict that has no horizon or hint of “success” against a resilient Taliban insurgency. The disenchantment is reflected in public opinion polls such as the late July/early August on-line poll of 5,075 adults in Britain, Canada, France, Germany and Italy. Between 49 percent and 69 percent in each country thought the war effort in Afghanistan a failure. 

In Iraq, the future is even grimmer. United States losses through August 31 stand at 3,741 while allied forces have suffered 297 fatalities. In August, at least 1,773 Iraqi civilians and 76 Iraqi security personnel were killed. Since January 2005, based on U.N. estimates and Iraqi government statistics where available, a minimum 76,180 Iraqis died in the warfare that has engulfed their country. (These fatalities are in addition to the estimated 655,000 “excess” (above expected mortality) deaths indirectly associated with the fighting – the “Lancet” studies.)  

With so much carnage, the question arises – many have voiced it already – whether the Bush administration has become so inured to war that it cannot envision functioning in the absence of armed conflict. Indeed, it seems as though the Bush White House is caught in a self-created, cosmic-level circular logic. No matter how much effort it exerts, the administration cannot break free of the political and military conditions it created in Iraq, nor regain enough sway over events to direct what transpires there. Like a spacecraft in a declining orbit, U.S. influence can only decay over the next 16 months as central authority continues to disintegrate – possibly even leading to de facto partition of the country into sectarian and ethnic enclaves. Even where neighborhoods or towns appear pacified today, it is more likely because they have been “cleansed” of minority populations. 

Reported “body counts” in the Bush wars exceed 82,300 men, women and children – plus civilian and combatant deaths in Afghanistan before 2007 and in Iraq before 2005 when such information was not collected and recorded. That amounts to 27 deaths in war for every person killed September 11, 2001. This certainly exceeds the “eye for an eye” prescription. 

And therein is the highest cost of all. For long ago, retribution, always morally suspect, morphed into revenge – which is flat out immoral whether done by individual soldiers or by the nation-state.

Rox said:
 
Why is war the answer to everything? Why must so many innocent people suffer for the bad deeds and decisions of others?

I suppose we should be glad we have grown beyond the barbarian ways of centuries past, but until we can find a better way than killing, we haven't grown much.
 
posted 800 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
A blog post from huffingtonpost.com, which articulates and pulls together many of my thoughts over the past six years in one place, much more clearly and concisely than I am able.

http://tinyurl.com/2yhwhp
 
posted 800 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
I just finished reading the blog post from huffington. I want to read it again but also have a question. Is this administration so sure the Republic Party will take over and dominate so these expansions of presidential power will be used for their agenda? In light of the questionable elections we've seen in recent years, have they put safeguards in place to ensure this takeover and domination can't fail? Or, do they have so little confidence in those in the Democratic Party they think if one reclaimed the presidency they wouldn't recognize the power?
 
posted 800 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
Did you read the comments to the Huffington blog? I found this one to be interesting:

"From the moment the Bush Administration took office they sent a collective, arrogant, smirking f#@k you to the American people.
They had finally been given carte blanche to do whatever damnfool thing they wanted. The opportunity to begin the descent into the Hell the world finds itself in now came on Sept 11, 2001.
Up until then having an appointed President was only angering, not frightening beyond imagination. He would, the country thought, be a face that would occasionally be seen on television, repeating the words of his speechwriters and life would go on much the same as it always has, regardless of who was President.
Then, September 11, 2001 happened, and as the President is fond of saying, "everything changed."
Suddenly the world had the most militarily powerful nation with a fool at the controls.
I say a fool, not an idiot deliberatly.
George W. Bush is not stupid, but he is locked into a simple view of a situation that, if it were simple, it would have been resolved by now.
Because he won't acknowledge that his approach, bombing and killing and lying, is not the way to peace, the dying will continue.
The side benefit to him is that being a "war President" takes up all his time, so he needn't even think about a domestic agenda.
The mess he has created will remain, long after he has gone from his safe bubble as President to his other safe bubble, retirement with Secret Service protection for life.
Would that those ordinary people who have been affected by his decisions could just go back to their lives. Unfortunately thousands of them are dead.
Pitiful excuse for a President.
To use an old curse, may he live forever to see what he has done, never being forgiven."
 
posted 800 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
And, this comment:


"Corporatocracy is the Master Narrative

The overarching Master Narrative is the ascendancy of the Corporatocracy. Consolidating power in the executive is a component of the actual Master Narrative.

America is no longer a democracy. Power does not reside in the people or their representatives. Power resides in the Corporatocracy that now operates America for its own benefit, not for the benefit of citizens. The Corporatocracy comprises Big Oil, Big Energy, Big Finance, Big Media, Big Ag, Big Pharm, Big Military, and Big Politics (meaning the two political parties). These entities care only about their own survival. Citizens are mere consuming units."
 
posted 800 days ago
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Rox said:
 
Depressing comments, Linda. I haven't had a chance to read the link yet. Busy keep one kid out of the water, which ends up on my carpet, and the other to school. Next will be the new one wanting to eat. Maybe I can read while he does that.

Check out the Democratic Mashup. (Yes, that's correct, not Matchup.) Interesting, even though all I watched was the questions from Bill Maher and answers from each Dem candidate.

http://debates.news.yahoo.com/
 
posted 800 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Linda, my hypothesis (read as "wild ass guess"):

Much of the time the accumulation of power has been underway, Karl Rove was sitting "next door" putting together his plans of a permanent Republican majority. Thus, to the extent those around him were under his spell, there was no thought of anyone other than the GOP successors ever being in a position to utilize these powers. In fact, these powers would be used to further the plan. The results of the 2006 election may have caused a bit of reflection, but all in all, didn't derail the effort.

I believe the poster, and the Boston Globe reporter, are correct in the thought that with the power already accumulated and in place, it really doesn't matter who (or from what party) is elected; it will be claimed and used, and will not be voluntarily surrendered. Should a Democrat gain the White House in 2008, I fully anticipate there will be a great hue and cry from the GOP when exercise of these "new powers" occurs, with essentially the same result as now, UNLESS the GOP manages to accrue enough seats in 2008 for effective control of the House and Senate. If this occurs, then there will be an impeachment proceeding brought, for political reasons at least.

My position on all this, if I've not earlier made it clear, is that the accumulation of power in the Executive, whether under the theory of the Unified Executive, or under GWB being a "war president" and relying on Justice Jackson's concurring opinion in the Youngstown case, or some combination thereof, is antithetical to the Separation of Powers contained within the Constitution. I don't care which party controls the Presidency, this is flat out wrong, very troubling, nay scary, and to my mind calls into question whether our republic can survive the naked power grab. It will take a very courageous person to surrender the power so claimed and seemingly granted, and at present, I'm not seeing such a person in either party who is running for President.

Interestingly, I feel that these "implied powers" being claimed could, in the hands of someone really interested in getting the troops out of Iraq, be beneficial to such effort. A bit of a twist, huh?
 
posted 800 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Illustrative of my thinking in the final paragraph of the 1:40 post, supra, would be the following: the 2008 elections result in an "anti-war" president being elected, but a surprising number of GWB is correct Senators and Congresspersons. The Congress passes a measure mandating continuation of the troops in Iraq. The Prez signs the measure, making it law, but issues a signing statement which in essence says this law is not binding upon me. The Prez then exercises some of the new-found powers as CIC in wartime to bring the troops home, in total derogation of the Congressional action, citing, as authority, the actions of the previous administration and positions of the same on the inherent powers of the President.
 
posted 800 days ago
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Rox said:
 
This isn't my father's country anymore.
 
posted 800 days ago
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longhorn said:
 
"Illustrative of my thinking in the final paragraph of the 1:40 post, supra"

I'm swooning VT. I love it when you talk lawyer to me.....

heheheheheh

I also think perhaps a Democratic president would be less likely to abuse these powers as his/her own base would not support it. The think about Democrats is that we hold our own people to our own standards, rather than the standard of "fill my pockets" above all else.

A Democratic president would find it useful to use these powers, but less likely to abuse them.

What is also scary to me is the lack of differences between the democrat front runners among themselves, but especially no difference from the repub candidates.

Corporotists all. I fear they all serve the same master, some covertly and some overtly. And the MIC is the master. Us? We're just the prolatariat.
 
posted 800 days ago
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longhorn said:
 
I should have excepted Dennis and Ron. They are not really corporate guys, and that is why the meme "unelectable" dogs them both.
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
lh, all in all have nothing to add to your last two posts. I keep thinking that surely, somewhere, somehow, a candidate will appear (at this point, party affiliation is not all that relevant) who will capture the fancy of the individual and be able to become electable without the corporate money, etc. Likely my "Fantasyland"...
 
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longhorn said:
 
Well save room for me in Fantasyland if that's the case. I think ALL Americans right now long for authenticity and integrity. The problem is, to rise to the heights of national prominence that make one a viable candidate, requires the complete eradication of both pillars of character.

Thus, no one with national experience or name recognition has clean hands. Sorry to be so cynical, but I've seen too much and too "up close and personal" to fool myself into thinking otherwise.

I wish you could have heard Keith Olberman's introduction to oddball last night. I'm paraphrasing, but he said something like Americans elect their president based on who is most closely a replica of the voter him/herself.

And as the people get fatter and dumber and number, they elect people who are dumber and number if not fatter a la Clinton. Any way, I think this was a quote from Menken, but he said, eventually, American voters themselves would reach such apathetic and ignorant lows that the White House would be occupied by an unvarnished moron.

Damn, not only a good prediction but and eerily accurate one as well.
 
posted 800 days ago
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longhorn said:
 
Ya know VT, if a candidate of vision, integrity and authenticity did appear, I think to be electable, such candidate would have to rise from the mists of a third party.

There is no way in hell I would EVER vote for ANY republican. And ya know there are just as many repukes as dems who feel the same way. Too much partisanship, too many cheap shots, too much blame to cast for our individual circumstances.

I could vote for a third party candidate, and in fact, would welcome the opportunity if they were not also feeding at the corporate trough courtesy of the MIC. Maybe some cons could feel the same way.

I hold little hope it will happen in my lifetime. Hence, the request for a reservation at VT's Fantasyland and Mule Barn...
 
posted 800 days ago
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longhorn said:
 
I do think though, that perhaps we are, collectively, seeing the folly of electing people we force to be, or at least appear, perfect.

This might be the time for a "look, I'm just like you, I've made mistakes" candidate.

I always had a fantasy that if I ran against Ralph, I'd say "look, if you want the candidate with the perfect family and who has never made mistakes of youth and otherwise, vote for Ralph."

But if you want someone who knows about the real world, the good and the bad, and who has seen a little of the ugly and come out ok on the other side, if you want a candidate just like your son or daughter or aunt or grandma, then vote for me."

But that aint gonna happen, and perhaps the mistakes as noted should not be quite as big or dramatic or public as mine have been... he heheheheheh heheh eh!

Cue "Both Sides Now"... as campaign theme. HEE HEE!
 
posted 800 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Reservation confirmed, lh. :-)

Thinking about the last time a "third party" arose, namely the Republicans which sorta, kinda, arose from the ashes of the Whigs, it took a nationally divisive issue (slavery) to attract sufficient numbers from both parties to do it. I don't see the current Iraq situation as that kind of issue, but if W is going to relate the current Iraq issue with troop continuation to Korea (from a cnn.com article), this might, in the long run, do it. Especially if the U.S. gets involved in an armed conflict with Iran.

The point I'm not too successfully trying to make is that for a third party to become viable on a national scale, it's going to take an issue such as slavery to do it, with one party (the Whigs in the 1850s; the GOP (?) presently) being moribund on the issue, and incapable of any change thereon. Absent that, the MIC trough will continue to feed those who will eagerly line up, irrespective of any nominal party affiliation.
 
posted 800 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
And, lh, there are "cons" I believe who feel the same way. These are the so-called "Goldwater Republicans", who view what is going on these days in the GOP with much the same distaste as many so-called "libs". I think there are some of these folks young enough to join in a charge for a third party....
 
posted 800 days ago
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longhorn said:
 
I agree VT. I also think though, that if the supremes decide to overturn Roe v Wade, that could do it as well. I think that's why the "nibble away" strategy has worked so well. They know damn well people would riot in the streets with an outright overturn.

And you are also right about Iran. I think an attack there would be the last straw for most Americans, regardless of how the congress critters of both parties would probably welcome it, either secretly or publicly.
 
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lindainks55 said:
 
Have just a minute but couldn't resist stopping to make my reservation. You ALL already knew I wanted to be there in Fantasyland with you!
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Stopping by as I'm ready to go out the door, so I'll take a moment and confirm Linda's reservation as well....
 
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lindainks55 said:
 
I think we're gonna need a BIG table at the Mule Barn!
 
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longhorn said:
 
HEH Linda, with enough saw horses and plywood, we dont NEED no stinkin' tables. We can make our own!

That's the code of the mule barn.
 
posted 799 days ago
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lindainks55 said:
 
but, but, but, I thought only those CONS were self sufficient. (giggle) let's not make padded cushions (even tho we could whip em out). wouldn't want anything to be comfortable enough to attract the haves and have mores wannabees.
 
posted 799 days ago
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gweltha.wkcsc said:
 
Let's see if I've got this right: We don't have enough troops is Iraq, so we "surge" more. And then when they would normally rotate out, we announce a new strategy and bring almost all of them out anyway. So now, we're back to not having enough troops again and this is touted as the "Return on Success"?

Sounds to me we have found a replacement for the awesome " MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"!!

I sure hope we can afford more of this "success"!

(PS-Now my head and my wallet hurts!)
 
posted 799 days ago
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gster said:
 
That was me.
 
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
gster, we bring out those who were, for all intents and purposes, already scheduled for rotation and call it "Return on Success"? Yep, that's what I understand. Oh, and in determining success, we cite how safe Anbar now is, try to take credit for this due to the surge, even though the "bottom up" was happening some 4 months before the surge began, and, oh by the way, the main Sheik gets blown up leaving his home (hey, that's success, he wasn't beheaded).

And then, just to be sure, we also enter into an agreement "sought" by the lamest duck of all, al Maliki, to have a military presence there for who knows how long. Oh, yeah, things are really going well.
 
posted 799 days ago
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gster said:
 
This type logic reminds me of Catch-22, where Yossarian's group ) if I recall the characters correctly)is charging the enemy less than the cost of bombs to actually bomb them and then some how claim a profit from the operation!

Maybe instead of "Return for Success" , it should be " Reform from Success"?
 
posted 799 days ago
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Vaughn Tolle said:
 
Been a while since I read "Catch-22", but that sounds right to me, gster (smiling in remembrance of the great literature read in Honors English 1 at KU when other freshmen persons were reading all that regular English 1 tripe).
 
posted 799 days ago
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gster said:
 
The 4 years I was in the Army, I made it a practice to read Catch-22 and Atlas Shrugged to keep things in proper perspective.
 
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