Rox said:
I'd be content with half a donut. How 'bout the rest of you?
My prayer upon climbing out of bed was to get through the day without 4 eggs broken on my carpet, another set of blinds destroyed, and the hope for a few less arguments between the third generation siblings. I know that's asking a lot, but what's prayer for, anyway, if you can't reach for the moon? At least I didn't ask to win the lottery, when I don't even buy lottery tickets.
My prayer upon climbing out of bed was to get through the day without 4 eggs broken on my carpet, another set of blinds destroyed, and the hope for a few less arguments between the third generation siblings. I know that's asking a lot, but what's prayer for, anyway, if you can't reach for the moon? At least I didn't ask to win the lottery, when I don't even buy lottery tickets.
gster said:
I prefer kringla to dough nuts- anyone know what I'm referring to? It's a Norwegian thing.
Rox said:
gster, I'm not familiar with kringla, but I'd defer to baklava, if given half a chance. :)
Vaughn Tolle said:
gster, you talking about those pretzel shaped pastry things? If so, I really like them, too. BTW, knew they were Scandanavian, didn't realize Norwegian. Now you've really made me hungry, I tell you what.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Rox, baklava too? This thread's progress is about to overwhelm me, I tell you; my stomach is growling, visions of delicacies are dancing before my eyes. I may have to go back to work and ignore this thread.
Wendy said:
Yeah, I splurged and ate a donut this morning. I am a sucker for the cinnamon/sugar donuts, and Dillon's was putting them out fresh this morning and I just couldn't resist. To make up for it at lunch I am having a bowl of Healthy Choice chicken soup with a whopping 90 calories...
gster said:
VT- That's what I'm talking about. I haven't had any for years since my Grandmothe died (at 105.5 yrs). Wherd did you find them?
Vaughn Tolle said:
I'm going to take another road with this post.
Attended the third Building Evaluation Team meeting at NEMHS last night. Those of you within USD 259 are no doubt aware that there were many needs not met for various buildings by the last bond issue, and the Board (in anticipation, I think, of going for another bond issue) has requested the buildings go through the same process as occurred previously. The good news is that our little group reached consensus quite quickly on what is needed at NEM; the bad news is that there isn't much on our modest list that can be accomplished in a short period of time without the capital infusion from a bond issue.
What was rewarding was the apparent change in community perception on what the schools need. When a similar exercise was conducted two years ago, the Steering Committee recommendations placed improved athletic facilities as the first priority, followed by improved Fine Arts, more classroom space to allow smaller classes, larger library/multimedia centers, etc. From recent community sessions, other discussions with the public, the athletic facility issue has "slud" (to borrow a particularly appropriate mangling of the English language from Dizzy Dean) to no higher than a third, or perhaps fourth, priority. Additional classrooms now leads the list, it appears, followed closely by improved Fine Arts and library, etc. facilities.
I'm posting this at this point to seek your thoughts. There is one more meeting, a "wrap up", where we're putting this into the modern equivalent of stone. I'm not looking for thoughts specific to NEM, as I realize I'm the only regular here familiar with it and its needs; rather, I'm seeking thoughts and opinions as to what, in your minds, is most important to the district as a whole, should another bond issue become something more than a general discussion.
It's my opinion, BTW, that at present a bond issue would fail. Part of the basis for my opinion is that the entire Arena issue has "poisoned the water" right now; part of it is the normal resistance to higher taxes; and part is the perception of the public that one of the foundations for the bond issue which is now being paid off was that with better facilities, student achievement would grow is not being met, at least at the middle school and high school level. The number of schools meeting the Standard of Excellence was trumpeted far and wide recently. If the numbers are examined, most of the schools were at the elementary level. Only three high schools received "Standard of Excellence" recognition; NW and NEM in both Reading and Math; East in Writing. The middle schools didn't fare any better, as I recall.
As you may have also noticed, there has been little said on achieving AYP. From looking at some preliminary data, that's because the district as a whole didn't do too well. We can argue about NCLB, and the unrealistic goals it sets, the reliance on State Assessment scores to measure the same, and the outrageous AYP requirements forever, but once the results for the past year are finally made public, I suspect the general reaction of those who are paying attention will be negative. Like it or not, to the general member of the public, all that will be remembered is not meeting AYP. That is what will be perceived as rebutting the "better facilities, better performance" mantra from the bond issue of some five or six years ago, and will be a powerful tool for use in defeating any proposed bond issue.
Attended the third Building Evaluation Team meeting at NEMHS last night. Those of you within USD 259 are no doubt aware that there were many needs not met for various buildings by the last bond issue, and the Board (in anticipation, I think, of going for another bond issue) has requested the buildings go through the same process as occurred previously. The good news is that our little group reached consensus quite quickly on what is needed at NEM; the bad news is that there isn't much on our modest list that can be accomplished in a short period of time without the capital infusion from a bond issue.
What was rewarding was the apparent change in community perception on what the schools need. When a similar exercise was conducted two years ago, the Steering Committee recommendations placed improved athletic facilities as the first priority, followed by improved Fine Arts, more classroom space to allow smaller classes, larger library/multimedia centers, etc. From recent community sessions, other discussions with the public, the athletic facility issue has "slud" (to borrow a particularly appropriate mangling of the English language from Dizzy Dean) to no higher than a third, or perhaps fourth, priority. Additional classrooms now leads the list, it appears, followed closely by improved Fine Arts and library, etc. facilities.
I'm posting this at this point to seek your thoughts. There is one more meeting, a "wrap up", where we're putting this into the modern equivalent of stone. I'm not looking for thoughts specific to NEM, as I realize I'm the only regular here familiar with it and its needs; rather, I'm seeking thoughts and opinions as to what, in your minds, is most important to the district as a whole, should another bond issue become something more than a general discussion.
It's my opinion, BTW, that at present a bond issue would fail. Part of the basis for my opinion is that the entire Arena issue has "poisoned the water" right now; part of it is the normal resistance to higher taxes; and part is the perception of the public that one of the foundations for the bond issue which is now being paid off was that with better facilities, student achievement would grow is not being met, at least at the middle school and high school level. The number of schools meeting the Standard of Excellence was trumpeted far and wide recently. If the numbers are examined, most of the schools were at the elementary level. Only three high schools received "Standard of Excellence" recognition; NW and NEM in both Reading and Math; East in Writing. The middle schools didn't fare any better, as I recall.
As you may have also noticed, there has been little said on achieving AYP. From looking at some preliminary data, that's because the district as a whole didn't do too well. We can argue about NCLB, and the unrealistic goals it sets, the reliance on State Assessment scores to measure the same, and the outrageous AYP requirements forever, but once the results for the past year are finally made public, I suspect the general reaction of those who are paying attention will be negative. Like it or not, to the general member of the public, all that will be remembered is not meeting AYP. That is what will be perceived as rebutting the "better facilities, better performance" mantra from the bond issue of some five or six years ago, and will be a powerful tool for use in defeating any proposed bond issue.
Vaughn Tolle said:
gster, this won't make you happy; the last ones I had were in Minnesota a few years ago. Once upon a time, there was a bakery in Lindsborg that made/sold them, but I'm told it no longer is in business. Oh, the inhumanity of it all.
lindainks55 said:
More classrooms!
I won't get off on one of my boring tirades. You know how easy that is when we're talking this very important subject.
We need smaller student / teacher ratios and if we don't have places to put smaller classes than let's build some.
You all know without me repeating that I want NCLB to go away, for our teachers to be paid more, for some teachers to go away more quickly and not be kept on until they've achieved tenure and it becomes more difficult to weed them out, for Mr. Brooks to go away, for our teachers to be treated as the educated professionals they are in not just salary but working conditions, respect for their opinions, leeway to be the expert on what's going on and needed in their classroom.
OK, I did say I wouldn't go off on one of my tirades...
I won't get off on one of my boring tirades. You know how easy that is when we're talking this very important subject.
We need smaller student / teacher ratios and if we don't have places to put smaller classes than let's build some.
You all know without me repeating that I want NCLB to go away, for our teachers to be paid more, for some teachers to go away more quickly and not be kept on until they've achieved tenure and it becomes more difficult to weed them out, for Mr. Brooks to go away, for our teachers to be treated as the educated professionals they are in not just salary but working conditions, respect for their opinions, leeway to be the expert on what's going on and needed in their classroom.
OK, I did say I wouldn't go off on one of my tirades...
Wendy said:
Here's some more food for thought for all of you:
"At present there does not exist any strong evidence that any abstinence program delays the initiation of sex, hastens the return to abstinence or reduces the number of sexual partners" among teenagers, the study concluded.
The report, which was based on a review of research into teenager sexual behavior, was being released Wednesday by the nonpartisan National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
(From article on yahoo.com)
"At present there does not exist any strong evidence that any abstinence program delays the initiation of sex, hastens the return to abstinence or reduces the number of sexual partners" among teenagers, the study concluded.
The report, which was based on a review of research into teenager sexual behavior, was being released Wednesday by the nonpartisan National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
(From article on yahoo.com)
Wendy said:
Here's some other thoughts for you. Consider me in the uninformed portion of your survey, Vaughn, as it has been at least 10 years since i was in the Public School system, I attended a much smaller school district, and I currently do not have school aged children for basis on my thoughts. That said, here is what I think: I agree with Linda, smaller class sizes. NCLB is useless in it's reality, although the concept is great. We need to eradicate these tests, because now all that kids are learning is the information on the tests, not the information they need to succeed in life. Safe learning environments. Learning scaled to the child, not the population as a whole - by that I mean dividing classes by capabilities - don't label them special ed or accelerated, to make people feel bad. But what if we had Grade 3X and 3Y and 3Z - X for students operating ABOVE grade average in classes, Y for students operating at grade average, and Z for students operating below grade average. When you lump kids all in to one class what happens is that the accelerated kids get bored, stop paying attention and start doing poorly, the (I can't think of a politically correct term, so I apologize if this offends anyone) "slow" kids fall behind and perform poorly, and the average kids get ignored in favor of attempting to help either the accelerated kids get back on track, or catching up the "slow" children, and they start performing poorly. Catch 22.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Wendy, it's good to know that there has been a formal research study which confirms what I've known (rather, suspected) for decades. Part of my "suspicion" involved what happened within my graduating class from high school; the only "sex ed" that was available in those days was "just say no" or words to that effect. Let us just say that there were many marriages shortly after graduation followed by offspring soon thereafter.
Similar observations made while on active duty with the USAF; disturbingly, young women from sheltered backgrounds much too frequently (our office would become involved in the administrative discharge action, most didn't want to fight it), and they had a background of abstinence only.
Fast forward to doing what I do; adoption, in this context; again, many from a similar background.
Now, abstinence only is the best prevention of pregnancy, as well as avoiding transmission of STDs, etc., and I don't hold otherwise. However, hormones rage, etc., and thus there must be a discussion (preferably parental, but too many parents don't or won't have this discussion at the time it needs to be had [if ever], which is younger than high school age by several years, IMHO) of not only abstinence, but also of meaningful contraception methods, as well as condom usage, etc., together with the increased risks of multiple partners.
One thing I've offered to the schools with which I'm associated is a "steely eyed missile man" discussion of the legal ramifications associated with unplanned pregnancies, to date not accepted. I've wondered if discussion of, e.g., the potential for eighteen years of IWOs as the method by which child support is paid might be an appropriate rationale for males in particular to control themselves or at least to take precautions.
Enough digression; I'm not surprised at all by the conclusion drawn from the data collected in the study. I'd be very concerned if anyone was.
Similar observations made while on active duty with the USAF; disturbingly, young women from sheltered backgrounds much too frequently (our office would become involved in the administrative discharge action, most didn't want to fight it), and they had a background of abstinence only.
Fast forward to doing what I do; adoption, in this context; again, many from a similar background.
Now, abstinence only is the best prevention of pregnancy, as well as avoiding transmission of STDs, etc., and I don't hold otherwise. However, hormones rage, etc., and thus there must be a discussion (preferably parental, but too many parents don't or won't have this discussion at the time it needs to be had [if ever], which is younger than high school age by several years, IMHO) of not only abstinence, but also of meaningful contraception methods, as well as condom usage, etc., together with the increased risks of multiple partners.
One thing I've offered to the schools with which I'm associated is a "steely eyed missile man" discussion of the legal ramifications associated with unplanned pregnancies, to date not accepted. I've wondered if discussion of, e.g., the potential for eighteen years of IWOs as the method by which child support is paid might be an appropriate rationale for males in particular to control themselves or at least to take precautions.
Enough digression; I'm not surprised at all by the conclusion drawn from the data collected in the study. I'd be very concerned if anyone was.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Wendy, thanks for your input (and Linda, thanks for yours, too). On the "labeling", from my observation the only egos adversely affected thereby are those of the parents in large part. The students know better than anyone, and I suspect earlier than anyone, which classmates fall within the respective groups. And yes, the average student is the one who gets screwed by the "inclusionary" (if that's a word) classroom.
For students who have learning disorders, or behavioral disorders, there needs to be "Special Ed" to assist them. Some will never be able to overcome their situation; so be it. In Kansas, Special Ed provides coverage to those students who are "gifted" (a label I despise, but it's the one out there), and they, too, are entitled to consideration, albeit of a much different type, outside the "regular classroom". By trying to include all students within the same classroom without consideration of the varying abilities, etc., we as a society are failing all students IMHO.
I feel strongly that if the assessments were "properly" constructed, the mere act of learning what should be learned in the various areas assessed would ensure success on the assessments. I see that at TIS, where the curriculum taught provides the necessary tools to be successful on the state assessments without taking instructional time to "prep" therefor. I am fully aware that this is much easier to do where the bottom two quartiles of ability are not represented within the student body. I do not think, however, that with all quartiles represented this cannot occur in a public school setting; a more rigorous curriculum is needed, with the bar set high. What I see (admittedly as an outsider) is an overall "dumbing down" of textbooks which leads to a less rigorous curriculum.
I know I'm beating the same drum here, but according to my wife, who is involved in textbook ordering for TIMS, it is now not possible to obtain a pure grammar text. There are texts for writing classes which include some grammar, but a text dedicated solely to grammar seemingly no longer exists. It is my position, oft repeated, that without knowledge of grammar, the knowledge one might possess of any subject cannot be effectively communicated to others (Rox, Linda, others, feel free to chime in on this one if you desire). Hey, at this point, perhaps the best thing that can be provided is a style book (White and Strunk; Strunk and White; I don't recall) which at least, by the examples, can provide effective communication skills by teaching grammar without being a grammar text.
Enough of my rant; as you good folks are aware, I can go on very long rants on the topic of education with little provocation. It's time to let others rant, if they wish. :-)
For students who have learning disorders, or behavioral disorders, there needs to be "Special Ed" to assist them. Some will never be able to overcome their situation; so be it. In Kansas, Special Ed provides coverage to those students who are "gifted" (a label I despise, but it's the one out there), and they, too, are entitled to consideration, albeit of a much different type, outside the "regular classroom". By trying to include all students within the same classroom without consideration of the varying abilities, etc., we as a society are failing all students IMHO.
I feel strongly that if the assessments were "properly" constructed, the mere act of learning what should be learned in the various areas assessed would ensure success on the assessments. I see that at TIS, where the curriculum taught provides the necessary tools to be successful on the state assessments without taking instructional time to "prep" therefor. I am fully aware that this is much easier to do where the bottom two quartiles of ability are not represented within the student body. I do not think, however, that with all quartiles represented this cannot occur in a public school setting; a more rigorous curriculum is needed, with the bar set high. What I see (admittedly as an outsider) is an overall "dumbing down" of textbooks which leads to a less rigorous curriculum.
I know I'm beating the same drum here, but according to my wife, who is involved in textbook ordering for TIMS, it is now not possible to obtain a pure grammar text. There are texts for writing classes which include some grammar, but a text dedicated solely to grammar seemingly no longer exists. It is my position, oft repeated, that without knowledge of grammar, the knowledge one might possess of any subject cannot be effectively communicated to others (Rox, Linda, others, feel free to chime in on this one if you desire). Hey, at this point, perhaps the best thing that can be provided is a style book (White and Strunk; Strunk and White; I don't recall) which at least, by the examples, can provide effective communication skills by teaching grammar without being a grammar text.
Enough of my rant; as you good folks are aware, I can go on very long rants on the topic of education with little provocation. It's time to let others rant, if they wish. :-)
lindainks55 said:
We've discussed ability grouping before. At least I've talked with Vaughn about the subject, was it here or over there? I went to school when ability grouping was the standard and everyone had a beter opportunity to succeed.
Yes, if people are learning they will pass assessments of their learning and if they are learning that tells me the teacher is meeting expectations too. I don't need nor believe it's a good measure of anything to teach to the test so the same test can be passed by everyone. Only someone who knows nothing about education could have dreamed up that nonsense. The only part of NCLB which makes sense is the name.
Grammar, punctuation, proper use of our language does seem to be a lost art.
I want to take this opportunity to ask you a question, Vaughn. One time many months ago when we were all making mention of our grammar pet peeves you mentioned yours was the not knowing of its, it's, its'... So, since I think I also use those incorrectly I want some rules. Got any?
One of my bigger pet peeves remains the improper conjugation of verbs.
And what happened to diagramming sentences? That taught us a lot!
Yes, if people are learning they will pass assessments of their learning and if they are learning that tells me the teacher is meeting expectations too. I don't need nor believe it's a good measure of anything to teach to the test so the same test can be passed by everyone. Only someone who knows nothing about education could have dreamed up that nonsense. The only part of NCLB which makes sense is the name.
Grammar, punctuation, proper use of our language does seem to be a lost art.
I want to take this opportunity to ask you a question, Vaughn. One time many months ago when we were all making mention of our grammar pet peeves you mentioned yours was the not knowing of its, it's, its'... So, since I think I also use those incorrectly I want some rules. Got any?
One of my bigger pet peeves remains the improper conjugation of verbs.
And what happened to diagramming sentences? That taught us a lot!
Wendy said:
Vaughn,
I agree completely. I realize that at times I use improper grammar, however, I do make an effort to do so correctly. But then again, I had "grammar" books in school, and English classes were more about learning proper grammar than anything else. I suspect this is no longer the case.
I think that standardized testing is a poor medium for measure. It has been proven time and time again that standardized tests are not "fair" for lack of a better term. When I was in early years in college it came out that the ACT and SAT, albeit unintentionally, were skewed for better success by white male test takers as opposed to women or minorities. Do we honestly believe this problem has been completely solved? Obviously it can't have been, since so many teachers are busy teaching "to the test" in order to have their students pass. Also, there are students that simply cannot take tests. My sister is one of those. Graduated valedictorian of her high school, got a full ride scholarship to the University of Miami, where she has an undergrad degree in both Marine Sciences and English (who knows) with a minor in Women's Studies and is currently working on her Master's in Liberal Arts - and yet she still has panic attacks before tests. She scored a 29 on the ACT, which is certainly not a bad score, but given her obvious intellect, I would have expected her to score much higher, and I have no idea what she scored on the SAT but I do know that again it was below what one would have expected out of her.
I agree completely. I realize that at times I use improper grammar, however, I do make an effort to do so correctly. But then again, I had "grammar" books in school, and English classes were more about learning proper grammar than anything else. I suspect this is no longer the case.
I think that standardized testing is a poor medium for measure. It has been proven time and time again that standardized tests are not "fair" for lack of a better term. When I was in early years in college it came out that the ACT and SAT, albeit unintentionally, were skewed for better success by white male test takers as opposed to women or minorities. Do we honestly believe this problem has been completely solved? Obviously it can't have been, since so many teachers are busy teaching "to the test" in order to have their students pass. Also, there are students that simply cannot take tests. My sister is one of those. Graduated valedictorian of her high school, got a full ride scholarship to the University of Miami, where she has an undergrad degree in both Marine Sciences and English (who knows) with a minor in Women's Studies and is currently working on her Master's in Liberal Arts - and yet she still has panic attacks before tests. She scored a 29 on the ACT, which is certainly not a bad score, but given her obvious intellect, I would have expected her to score much higher, and I have no idea what she scored on the SAT but I do know that again it was below what one would have expected out of her.
lindainks55 said:
Did I tell you guys about the lady who writes curriculum for home schoolers and her two "text" books were "State of the States" and "Presidents?" Seems like I've already told you.
Is it memory that's the first to go? I've lost some other stuff and some days I'm in danger of losing my mind so maybe memory falls down the line a bit.
I'm NOT proud of myself for responding to Hank over there yesterday. But count it among my many quirks that I think it is disrespectful, patronizing and downright maddening when a person calls me something like "Dear." I also don't like the young people who refer to my as "young lady." Those things just frost me! Most especially when I've asked that it stop! Thank you for putting up with me! Strangely, all of you could call me dear and it would make me smile. Just to prove I make no sense at all! Now enough has been said and I won't bring it up again.
Is it memory that's the first to go? I've lost some other stuff and some days I'm in danger of losing my mind so maybe memory falls down the line a bit.
I'm NOT proud of myself for responding to Hank over there yesterday. But count it among my many quirks that I think it is disrespectful, patronizing and downright maddening when a person calls me something like "Dear." I also don't like the young people who refer to my as "young lady." Those things just frost me! Most especially when I've asked that it stop! Thank you for putting up with me! Strangely, all of you could call me dear and it would make me smile. Just to prove I make no sense at all! Now enough has been said and I won't bring it up again.
Vaughn Tolle said:
It's; a contraction for "it is". Example: Gee, it's hot today.
Its; third person neuter possessive. Example: The corporation has taken charge of its financial programs.
Its'; someone else want to take a shot at this? I don't think this is proper in any circumstance.
Improper conjugation of verbs; another pet peeve. Verb conjugation is difficult, especially when dealing with irregular verbs (the verb form "to be", as an example). Studying Latin was very helpful to me in this area.
Diagramming sentences still happens at TIS. I was very, very good at this "once upon a time".
Another pet peeve; improper usage of reflexive pronouns. Often used by people who want to appear important or erudite. Example, often appearing in correspondence from other colleagues: "If you have any questions, please contact myself or....", when the fragment above should read "...please contact me...". Use of "myself" as an example which I think is correct: "I, myself, feel this is very important."
Collective nouns: this goes back to my Latin days. "Data" is the plural form of "datum". Thus, formally "The data reveal", usually written as "The data reveals". Similarly, "criteria" vs. "criterion", that is, "The criteria are..." as opposed to "The criteria is...".
Rule changes over the years. "Mothers-in-law" has been replaced by "Mother-in-laws"; "cupsful" has been replaced by
"cupfuls"; and so on.
One of my all time "favorites"; (list of items) and etc., rather than (list of items), etc. The abbreviation "etc." is for the Latin "et cetera", translated as "and others", "et" being "and" in Latin.
Linda, are you sorry you asked? :-)
Its; third person neuter possessive. Example: The corporation has taken charge of its financial programs.
Its'; someone else want to take a shot at this? I don't think this is proper in any circumstance.
Improper conjugation of verbs; another pet peeve. Verb conjugation is difficult, especially when dealing with irregular verbs (the verb form "to be", as an example). Studying Latin was very helpful to me in this area.
Diagramming sentences still happens at TIS. I was very, very good at this "once upon a time".
Another pet peeve; improper usage of reflexive pronouns. Often used by people who want to appear important or erudite. Example, often appearing in correspondence from other colleagues: "If you have any questions, please contact myself or....", when the fragment above should read "...please contact me...". Use of "myself" as an example which I think is correct: "I, myself, feel this is very important."
Collective nouns: this goes back to my Latin days. "Data" is the plural form of "datum". Thus, formally "The data reveal", usually written as "The data reveals". Similarly, "criteria" vs. "criterion", that is, "The criteria are..." as opposed to "The criteria is...".
Rule changes over the years. "Mothers-in-law" has been replaced by "Mother-in-laws"; "cupsful" has been replaced by
"cupfuls"; and so on.
One of my all time "favorites"; (list of items) and etc., rather than (list of items), etc. The abbreviation "etc." is for the Latin "et cetera", translated as "and others", "et" being "and" in Latin.
Linda, are you sorry you asked? :-)
Vaughn Tolle said:
The problem is, Wendy, that the ACT and the SAT I have been shown to have predictive value concerning the success a person will have as either a college freshman (ACT) or in college generally (SAT I). During the daughters' respective days, I looked at the sample questions, and while there have been efforts made at reducing the perceived bias, some may still remain.
Given your sister's ACT 29, I'd generally expect a combined SAT (math and verbal) in the 1350-1390 range. What is somewhat humorous is that some folks do really well on the ACT and not as well on the SAT; others the opposite. In my experience, limited as it is, rarely does a person do "equally" well on both. Our two daughters are examples; the elder did quite well on the SAT, and while very well on the ACT, not quite what the SAT score would have predicted. The younger did well on the ACT, not so well (given the ACT score) on the SAT. Personally, I did better on the SAT than I did on the ACT, much as the elder.
The ACT is more of an "achievement" test, the SAT I (as it is now known) is more of an "aptitude" test. In other words, the ACT measures more of what one knows; the SAT I measures more of what one may be capable of doing, should that make any sense.
"Test anxiety" is foreign to me, and I freely admit it. Luckily, it was foreign to our daughters, too. I think I've posted about the elder's friend who was a Co-Valedictorian with her at NEM who had the worst case of test anxiety I've ever seen/known about. In her case (I subsequently learned) it was a part of her dealing with dyslexia over the years. Even the Bar Exam caused me no anxiety, as opposed to many of my fellow examinees. How to prepare for a standardized test such as the ACT or SAT(per VT); the night before, look at the sample questions once (for the first time), then go to bed, get a good night's sleep, arise, eat a good breakfast, then armed with three sharpened number 2 pencils, show up and take the darn thing. Worked well for me and the girls.:-)
Given your sister's ACT 29, I'd generally expect a combined SAT (math and verbal) in the 1350-1390 range. What is somewhat humorous is that some folks do really well on the ACT and not as well on the SAT; others the opposite. In my experience, limited as it is, rarely does a person do "equally" well on both. Our two daughters are examples; the elder did quite well on the SAT, and while very well on the ACT, not quite what the SAT score would have predicted. The younger did well on the ACT, not so well (given the ACT score) on the SAT. Personally, I did better on the SAT than I did on the ACT, much as the elder.
The ACT is more of an "achievement" test, the SAT I (as it is now known) is more of an "aptitude" test. In other words, the ACT measures more of what one knows; the SAT I measures more of what one may be capable of doing, should that make any sense.
"Test anxiety" is foreign to me, and I freely admit it. Luckily, it was foreign to our daughters, too. I think I've posted about the elder's friend who was a Co-Valedictorian with her at NEM who had the worst case of test anxiety I've ever seen/known about. In her case (I subsequently learned) it was a part of her dealing with dyslexia over the years. Even the Bar Exam caused me no anxiety, as opposed to many of my fellow examinees. How to prepare for a standardized test such as the ACT or SAT(per VT); the night before, look at the sample questions once (for the first time), then go to bed, get a good night's sleep, arise, eat a good breakfast, then armed with three sharpened number 2 pencils, show up and take the darn thing. Worked well for me and the girls.:-)
Vaughn Tolle said:
Linda, to rehash the old joke, "Memory is the second thing to go. I've forgotten the first.". :-)
lindainks55 said:
Vaughn, I "think" I know those rules. So, next time I use it incorrectly, point it out. Maybe that way I will learn something. I do know there have been times I wondered whether or not to put the apostrophe in and stopped to say "it is," to know whether that worked or not. I'll work on it, like the hundreds of other things I plan to work on. At least (maybe) it will keep me from thinking I need to work on anyone else!
How are the patients? We haven't seen Julie and that might mean she is still being nurse and could mean she is catching up at work. Julie, when you have time let us know if MM is better, please.
Mrs. Tolle doing OK? I'll bet work is wearing her out and she is so happy to be there she'll take being tired over bored and wondering.
How are the patients? We haven't seen Julie and that might mean she is still being nurse and could mean she is catching up at work. Julie, when you have time let us know if MM is better, please.
Mrs. Tolle doing OK? I'll bet work is wearing her out and she is so happy to be there she'll take being tired over bored and wondering.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Linda, the "patient" is at work, and is planning to attend the dress rehearsal of "Oklahoma" tonight with two of her colleagues. She seems to be doing very well, and working hasn't "tired her out", well, at least not yet.
Julie, what's going on? Inquiring minds want to know. :-)
Julie, what's going on? Inquiring minds want to know. :-)
Rox said:
Gee, I leave to run errands for an hour or so, and you guys are blazin'!
As far as I know --its'-- isn't a word, although written that way it would belong to a group of its, if that's possible. I'd check in my copy of Strunk & White, but it doesn't seem to be on the shelf, which means I've used it recently. My biggest problem is commas, but I keep trying. Maybe someday I'll have them mastered. On second thought, I doubt it.
As far as I know --its'-- isn't a word, although written that way it would belong to a group of its, if that's possible. I'd check in my copy of Strunk & White, but it doesn't seem to be on the shelf, which means I've used it recently. My biggest problem is commas, but I keep trying. Maybe someday I'll have them mastered. On second thought, I doubt it.
Danny said:
Vaughn,
I agree whole-heartedly with regards to the ACT/SAT tests. I did very well on both, didn't get a perfect on either, but did get a 31 on the ACT and I forget what exactly on the SAT, but I believe it was right around 1500. One of my friends scored perfects on both.
As you had said though, these tests test differently. One is knowledge based, the other is learning based. I freely admit that I stink at English. I can get across my ideas effectively if I sit down and think about it, but usually I get "excited" and don't think things through. Similar to Rox above, I don't to very well with commas.
Wendy,
On the Sex-Ed. issue, I think all forms should be taught: birth control(various forms of that) and abstinence. The reason is I think the students of the courses should know that abstinence is the only fool proof way of preventing diseases and pregnancies, but if practicing then can reduce diseases and pregnancies through the various means of the birth control.
I agree whole-heartedly with regards to the ACT/SAT tests. I did very well on both, didn't get a perfect on either, but did get a 31 on the ACT and I forget what exactly on the SAT, but I believe it was right around 1500. One of my friends scored perfects on both.
As you had said though, these tests test differently. One is knowledge based, the other is learning based. I freely admit that I stink at English. I can get across my ideas effectively if I sit down and think about it, but usually I get "excited" and don't think things through. Similar to Rox above, I don't to very well with commas.
Wendy,
On the Sex-Ed. issue, I think all forms should be taught: birth control(various forms of that) and abstinence. The reason is I think the students of the courses should know that abstinence is the only fool proof way of preventing diseases and pregnancies, but if practicing then can reduce diseases and pregnancies through the various means of the birth control.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Rox, when you get a handle on comma usage, please let me know.
And, wouldn't a group of "its" really be "their"? :-)
Danny, on the two tests, my scores are lost in the mists of time, but I recognize your superiority. You likely didn't have the antonym section (they abolished that many years ago, just as they did the analogies when the SAT was revised) which gave me fits on the SAT. I would suspect that you, as most males, did better on the math sections. I, on the other hand, did better with the verbal. I recall on the ACT science reasoning section that about half-way through, I was answering based upon my knowledge of the science involved, not on the set of facts given (which were the opposite of what was real), and had to hurry to erase and correct answers. Sneaky devils, huh?
And, wouldn't a group of "its" really be "their"? :-)
Danny, on the two tests, my scores are lost in the mists of time, but I recognize your superiority. You likely didn't have the antonym section (they abolished that many years ago, just as they did the analogies when the SAT was revised) which gave me fits on the SAT. I would suspect that you, as most males, did better on the math sections. I, on the other hand, did better with the verbal. I recall on the ACT science reasoning section that about half-way through, I was answering based upon my knowledge of the science involved, not on the set of facts given (which were the opposite of what was real), and had to hurry to erase and correct answers. Sneaky devils, huh?
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